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  1. #1
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    Angry 7135 Mysterious Battery Statement

    Hi all,

    Take a look here :
    The 7135 Smartphone battery specifications

    "... A backup battery maintains the data within the Palm(TM) portion of the 7135 Smartphone for approximately 40 to 60 hours after the main battery has lost a charge, such that voice calls can no longer be made. During this time, Palm functionality is available for up to 20 hours; however, the availability time is dependent on usage patterns..."

    So I finally checked it out. I wanted to know if my battery is the one that's gonna explode so I put it out for about 10 seconds.

    After I inserted it back - ALL apps and data was gone. 10 seconds!!! what's wrong? Why is there so big dichotomy between Kyocera's statement above, and the practice?

    Thanks,
    Machek

  2. #2
    Good place for Bill Gates SilvrDrgn's Avatar
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    The "backup battery" they're talking about only gets charged up when you have the 7135 plugged into a power source. The cradle or a car/travel charger is needed for that. If you don't plug it in for a long time, the backup battery will lose charge and no longer be able to keep the data in the device.
    Michael

  3. #3
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    and this is the answer I got from Kyocera's support.
    I still can't figure it out - why was it design this way? Hypothetically, even if the phone is fully charged, after several minutes of using it - it's not charged again, and the internal battery is useless... Weird


    Hello Machek,

    Thank you for contacting Kyocera Wireless. I understand that you lost all of your information from the Kyocera 7135 SmartPhone after removing the battery. Kyocera recommends that you always perform a HotSync to backup your information before removing the battery.

    [NOTE:] The internal battery, that stores the phone's information during a battery change or removal, will only charge after the main external battery has been fully charged. If your main battery is not completely charged, the internal battery will not start charging. To be certain that the internal battery has fully recharged, please charge your phone for at least eight hours (for a fully discharged phone). If the internal battery is not charged, you will lose all of your information.

    (As noted on pages 66-67 on the User's Guide)

    To properly replace the battery on the phone, please perform the following steps:

    1. Turn the phone off by holding down the end call button on the keypad until the display states that the phone is shut off.

    2. Close the flip portion of the phone to turn the PDA off.

    3. Take out and replace the battery within 30 seconds to retain your information. (This time can be extended indefinitely if external power is applied to the phone)


    These are the steps that are supported by Kyocera to be certain that the information will be retained by the phone. If your issue continues, feel free to let us know.

  4. #4
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    not a mysterious statement in how i read it.

    you can keep that ~40 hour time if you keep the discharged battery in the slot. the internal capacitor will "feed" off the discharged battey to retain its charge until it can no longer do so. of course, this all depends on battery life, temperature, and if the internal battery was able to get a full charge (~2-3 hours).

  5. #5
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    Summary of battery changing issue

    This is very interesting and good information. Every thread on this topic has a different twist, each adding an important element to the picture. Unfortunately these pearls are spread out all over the forum and also on the Kyocera website. Seems like this topic deserves a dedicated FAQ.

    Internal backup battery or capacitor? Doesn't matter really, what is important is that the regular battery must be fully charged before the charger starts to build energy in the backup energy source (internal battery or capacitor). And if you put a used battery in the back slot of the cradle, and then put your phone in (or remove your phone and put it back in, guess what? Your phone's battery is the last to get juice, and your internal energy source doesn't get juiced until your phones battery can't take any more. That sure sounds like the problem I have been having..... they designed this thing so it is very hard to get the internal backup energy source fully charged up.

    I think this is why so many people have so many different experiences with changing batteries, if you don't charge alot you'll get a hard reset, if you charge alot but always have the phone on, you'll get this semi-hard reset with digitizer calibration required (I saw this posted elsewhere), and if you shut off your phone alot when you charge you have no problems at all (especially if you shut off the phone when changing).

    If your phones internal energy backup source is low enough, it doesn't matter if you have the phone and pda off, or if you use the right technique to change batteries- you will experience unexpected behavior after inserting the charged battery- possibly a hard reset!

    Wouldn't it be nice to have a program that could read that internal power source's voltage.... Then you would know if it was safe to change the battery on the road. And that is what extra batteries are for, changing on the road.

    My guess is that the quickest way to make sure you have your internal backup energy source charged up is to connect to the charger, remove the battery, turn off your phone (if you don't have to have it on), don't use the pda side, and give it a few hours to get charged up before putting any batteries on the charger system. That way you aren't waiting for any other batteries to charge, and you know that no external battery is acting as a resistor blocking the juice to the internal backup energy source (as a worn out battery could do).

    A good test would be to follow this up with a fresh battery on the phone, keep the phone off and pda off, and if you are feeling brave and have everything backed up, then remove the battery for a few minutes. Kyocera says it should hold for 20 hours! Then put the battery back in carefully and see if you get a soft or hard reset; if you don't, then you know you are making progress with this thorny issue. I would do this but I'm headed out on vacation tomorrow with my chargers and extra battery and don't have any more time to experiment till I get back.

    Kyo Knowledgebase:
    Before replacing the battery, power off the 7135 Smartphone. If the 7135 Smartphone is powered on and you fail to replace the battery using one smooth motion, a hard reset is sometimes performed.

    Kyo Knowledgebase:
    There are two charging units in the cradle: one for the 7135 Smartphone and one for a spare battery. These charging units are charged in a first-come-first-served basis. Thus, if you have a battery in the rear-charging pocket and insert the 7135 Smartphone, the battery in the rear-charging pocket must complete charging before the 7135 Smartphone begins to charge. Likewise, if the 7135 Smartphone is already in the cradle, the rear-charging pocket does not begin charging until the 7135 Smartphone battery is completely charged. For more information, go to How Do I Charge the Battery Using the Cradle?
    Last edited by Alaska7135er; 08-11-2004 at 04:02 AM.

  6. #6
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    I had the same issue: battery out for about a minute, hard reset thereafter. According to the phone reference manual, page 196:

    "If the battery drains completely, the phone no longer operates. However, the built-in backup battery stores your clock settings and your data for about 45 minutes. Recharge the battery immediately."

    I asked Kyocera why my phone did a hard reset after a minute without a battery and they said there must be a problem with the phone, it should hold for the documented 45 minutes, and I should take it in for service.

    I haven't done so, for the simple reason that I really don't think my local provider is going to find any problem at all (past experience with all things electronic, not my provider specifically). Besides, I can pop out and replace the battery in two seconds, so the backup battery, while a nice to have, isn't really critical.

  7. #7
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    Rereading Kyocera's documentation I think it's entirely possible that they have a slightly looser definition of "drains completely". I suspect that their definition is one where there is not sufficient power to power on (i.e. no display) and that the internal RAM is still being maintained by the main battery.

  8. #8
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    I agree, especially if a capacitor whose microFaraday storage (is that the right term?) would likely have less "amp hours" then a small internal battery. Plus, I would think a capacitor would be more likely to instantly drain if battery removal or insertion resulted in an inadvertant short.

    I did try the stripped unit charging with phone off last night, and it made no difference after only a 5 second time to change batteries, still did a soft reset. The phone was off, pda off, all contacts of battery seemed to connect at once is a "smooth motion". I even had the SD card out, because it drains batteries too (at least in the ClieNX70V). But at least the digitizer calibration didnt' come up and the software was as it should be.

  9. #9
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    Soft reset is normal; the documentation says that a battery change will force a soft reset. It's the hard reset after the battery is out for a minute or so that is really aggravating.

    The digitizer calibration will come up if the last time it came up you did not select "Don't show this again". Otherwise, you won't see it.

  10. #10
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    That is very helpful for me, guess I missed that in my studies. Thanks very much. I think I did check the "don't show this again option" recently, but I thought it had to do with the stuff that follows the digitizer calibration sequence. It's nice to know that my phone is acting normal now!.

  11. #11
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    I have the same problem - battery out for even a couple of seconds to switch - hard reset. Every time. I leave my phone in the charger all night every evening and it indicates full charge in the morning but this hard reset still occurs. Should I just give up on this and never change the battery without power? (it is backed up). The battery is the original and holds a charge for a day with normal usage. Secondly, any suggestions for a new, longer-lasting battery?
    Thanks,
    Russ

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by russmd
    I have the same problem - battery out for even a couple of seconds to switch - hard reset. Every time. I leave my phone in the charger all night every evening and it indicates full charge in the morning but this hard reset still occurs. Should I just give up on this and never change the battery without power? (it is backed up). The battery is the original and holds a charge for a day with normal usage. Secondly, any suggestions for a new, longer-lasting battery?
    Thanks,
    Russ
    If your 7135 hard resets on battery change even after being in a powered (?) cradle all night, then that would mean the internal backup source is defective. You should get your 7135 replaced.
    Michael

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by russmd
    Secondly, any suggestions for a new, longer-lasting battery?
    As far as I know, there are none.

    -Quick

  14. #14
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    There was a radical suggestion posted by another user to solder two batteries together... But I don't think it his idea was able to succed at it.
    mg
    Luck is where opportunity meets preparation.

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