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  1. #1
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    Remedial advice for 7135 crashes

    I just discovered this pdaphonehome.com forum yesterday, and I stayed up all night reading post after post. Wow, can I ever relate to it! I currently have my fourth Kyocera 7135 replacement. (They--both Verizon & Kyocera--keep replacing the phone, but I'm convinced that, as they say in the UNIX community, "it's the software, stupid!".) I'll refrain from adding my horror story to this forum--it's all been said before, anyway. Instead, I wanted to see if I could get some really useful advice on how to actually resolve some of my issues. Here are some "burning questions" that I have had all year long. I hope that some of you can help me with answers. I sent the same queries to the Kyocera Tech, but I haven't gotten a response back, yet.[list=1][*]Since my crashes tend to happen under a variety of circumstances and with varying consequences, I would like to know if there is some PalmOS utility(ies) that I can install that would capture failure data (like core or log files?) that can be analyzed (by Kyocera Engineers) to find the root cause of the crash. At a minimum, I would like to be able to identify the offending application rather than doing a wholesale deletion of all third party applications, which seems to be the only answer I have gotten from Kyocera on this issue.[*]Unlike other operating systems with which I am familiar, PalmOS doesn't seem to have a familiar "boot" and/or "shutdown" procedure. Consequently, there seems to be no means of periodically "cleansing" the OS, purging defunct processes, freeing unused memory, memory fragmentation, etc. And while I can find a reasonable analog for launching an application, I find no means is ever provided to terminate (or exit) an application. Instead, it seems that I just kind of abandon the current application by starting another. Is there a way to completely remove (exit) running programs from the PalmOS kernel? If so, would this help to minimize the crashes or damage (data loss) caused by them?[*]If removing (as yet unidentified) offending third party applications is the only way to get my Kyocera 7135 to quit crashing, is there a clever means of narrowing down the list of possible offending applications quickly? I have about 15-25 such third party applications, and I do not have time to test each for a couple of weeks in series to gain sufficient confidence to eliminate each, in turn, from suspicion. [/list=1]
    Thanks in advance for any wisdom y'all can provide me on this matter!
    --b1rdd0g

  2. #2
    Good place for Bill Gates SilvrDrgn's Avatar
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    The program called "Crash Pro" will help you with #1 and #3. Make sure you get the "Pro" version because it has logging. The free version, just called "Crash", does not have logging capability.

    For #2, I believe it's part of PalmOS guidelines that when you tap the house icon in the Graffiti area, that is supposed to trigger the "exit" from current application. Whatever application is running should see that trigger, clean itself up, and exit back to the calling system. If the program doesn't clean up after itself, then I supposed that would eventually cause problems. The only way to fix that is do a soft reset.
    Last edited by SilvrDrgn; 02-08-2004 at 11:45 AM.
    Michael

  3. #3
    Cornfused MGuzzy's Avatar
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    b1rdd0g
    Welcome to the forum! Hey why don't you give us a list of the apps you are using. Some of the thousands of eye balls that come here might see a pattern or the conflicting apps. I noticed for example somethimes its not any one particular app by itself but a combination of apps with certain settings.
    mg
    Luck is where opportunity meets preparation.

  4. #4
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    MGuzzy-I've already capitulated, to some extent, to the Kyocera Tech Support mantra and removed all games and some other applications, too. I'll give you the list of applications that I still have left on here:
    • Crash V2.6 (Installed this mere hours ago--one of the benefits of being in this new little club I found. )
    • DailyReader v1.0.7 (read through the Bible in one year planner)
    • EasyCalc V1.22 (one calculator that does just about everything you can imagine-couldn't live without it!)
    • Eudora (came with the unit--I think it must be burned into the ROM, 'cause I can't remove it)
    • Eudora E-mail (ditto)
    • Eudora Web (ditto)
    • ExpenseBook V2.52 (Tally travel expenses for reimbursement)
    • fieldDebug V1.0 (now, I didn't install this one, but it is intriguing-know anything helpful I can do with this? I could sure stand some "debugging"!)
    • HackFinder V1.0 (Installed this mere hours ago--one of the benefits of being in this new little club I found. )
    • KeyCode V1.3 (stores passwords in encrypted DB rather than clear text)
    • libmal V2.0 (I think that this is the math library required by EasyCalc)
    • MathLib V1.1 (Hmmm, no maybe this is the math library... )
    • MP3Player V1.17 (burned in app)
    • MyBible V3.0 (Laridian Publishers-OT & NT Bible in NIV, KJV, & others)
    • PDATAdvUtilsLib v1.14 (I don't recall what this was for--trial package perhaps?--but I think I installed it. Haven't removed it 'cuz I don't want to break anything)
    • PoundPound V2.23 (idunno?)
    • RelHTAL Library V1.0 (idunno?)
    • Sat. Forms EE RDK... V4.0.1 (idunno?)
    • serviceProgram V1.0 (another intriguing title-don't seem to be a visible application, though)
    • SDDI PalmDB V4.0.1 (idunno?)
    • Timesheet V1.5.3 (an oldie but goodie a dragged over from my old IBM WorkPad-PalmOS 3, I think)
    Well, that isn't all of the applications, but it's probably a pretty good starting point for discussion. Now, let me see if I can list the "third party" applications that I removed just last week (after my latest crash 'n burn):
    • AvantGo V4.2 Build 1165 (heard many nasty things about this one--tis' a shame, though--I really liked this app )
    • BJExpert (BlackJack game/simulator)
    • BJCounter (Black Jack simulator/trainer)
    • BJExpert (Black Jack trainer/simulator)
    • blackjackWorldChamp (Elephant Casino version of single deck BJ)
    • iSilo (a documentation program--I used to have a lot of iSilo docs on my SD card before my Kyocera quit recognizing my card)
    • PalmReader (yet another documentation reader)
    • year (another one of those programs I brought over from my WorkPad--displays an entire calendar on one screen)
    Well, I hope that isn't TMI--but you did ask I appreciate any wisdom you can share with about these programs/libraries and how they might affect the stability of my Kyocera 7135. Thanks!
    --b1rdd0g

  5. #5
    Registered User nabour's Avatar
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    Constant crashes

    Hello,

    I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. I've had Kyocera 7135 for six months now. For the first five months I had it loaded with tons of applications - I try everything and anything. Constant crashes, from the merely annoying to the dead phone.

    When I got a replacement phone I tried doing something that was suggested a long time ago on this forum. I started from scratch. Listed my "must haves" by order of importance and loaded them one day at a time. I'll bet in a month I've had only three fatal resets, and that was always after loading a new application. Deduction was that that particular app doesn't go with what's already there. (Call me Sherlock!)

    I can't believe how smooth things are going. I've even been using Agendus Pro, which I adore. But I had stopped using it several months ago because their mail program caused so many resets. With my new system I loaded that program first, and DIDN'T reload my other mail programs (AOL for Palm. Snapper, several others). I've come to the happy conclusion that it wasn't Agendus per se but a combo of Agendus plus four other mail programs.

    I know this sounds like a lot of work, but it was worth it to me. You might try it. Start with the programs that you've got to have and only add them one per day.

    Hope things get better.

    Barb

  6. #6
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    I did some research tonight to find out what libraries might be left on my 7135 after removing some of the dastardly "third party apps". I did find one library, libmal 2.0, that was apparantly loaded with AvantGo. So I removed that library tonight, as well.

    I noticed one other thing that is peculiar. When I list Palm Info [Version], two of my applications are listed double double!

    Browser v. 1.0
    Browser v. 1.0
    [snip]
    Webclipping v. 4.0
    Webclipping v. 4.0

    Could this be indicative of a problem with my software load? If so, does anybody know how to fix it?
    --b1rdd0g

  7. #7
    Cornfused MGuzzy's Avatar
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    B1rdd0g
    Nabour is right.. the only way to really troubleshoot things is to load things incrementally on a clean phone. Just as an experiment have you tried doing a hard reset (after doing a good backup with backup buddy for example) and using just the natives apps for a day or so to see if you still have the problem? If they go away that would pretty be a good indicator that something you loaded as caused an issue and would provide you with a baseline to compare. just a thought
    mg

  8. #8
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    MGuzzy--What you are suggesting is exactly what I am trying to do. I am currently on my fourth 7135 (this latest one a refurbished one from Kyocera, rather than Verizon) for less than one week. I have eliminated all 3P applications other than those that I consider "must haves" for business purposes. So far, so good (At least I think so--gosh, I've become so accustomed to soft resets that I am not 100% sure that I haven't done a mandatory soft reset since last weekend!).

    But having been burned so many times in the past, I wouldn't consider myself "out of the woods" until I made it longer than two weeks without a Fatal Exception/reset. At the very least, I should be able to make it two weeks without having a hard crash where I have to resync from my PC.
    The real difference in viewpoint here is that some folks on this forum indicate I should wait a day or two before deciding that a particular 3P app is "clean". My own experience leads me to wait much, much longer before moving on.
    --b1rdd0g

  9. #9
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    Another thing to consider is that Kyocera recycles their returned phones as is if they can't reproduce the problem. This means that if a particular phone has a crashing problem with a specific program which is not native/supplied on the phones ROM set, Kyocera will place the phone back into general circulation effectively giving someone else the problem. I know this first hand because I went through three phone until I got a brand new one no one had complained about...and I've never had the crashing problem show up.

    From the sounds of your problems, it does sound like it is software, but be aware that it could just as easily be faulty hardware. The only way to figure this out is to test each applicaiton one at a time over a period of days WITHOUT HACKS and hope that any crash is repeatable.

    Best of luck and it's good to have you aboard.
    rr

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