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  1. #1
    Registered User trekbuff's Avatar
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    A Realistic Smartphone

    I know I'll probably edit this a dozen times as well as respond to other's comments..., but here goes....

    Many folks coming to this site want the 'Universal Device' to carry in their pocket... With credit to IBM, "You'd need an adapter."

    Folks wanting BlueTooth, WiFi, cameras, wishing the thing was smaller, wishing the thing was bigger, etc. I've just been communicating with one gentleman wanting to connect his Palm to his 7135! The scary part is that I truly understand his reasoning...

    The way things usually go happened with the 7135. Palms were already available with a 320x320 screen, 126 MHz processors and Palm OS 5.X.X . What did the 7135 come out with? A 160x160 smaller screen, 33 MHz processor and Palm 4.0 . Lest we forget the bugs in the OS ported for the 7135, one of the worst browsers on the planet and batteries blowing up.

    The technology was available at the release of the 7135 to have made it a much better unit. As such, the 7135 was 'almost' the best thing since sliced bread.

    I've talked with folks at Kyocera. They say the EIS browser was just to put a browser in the unit and that it is the customers responsibility to find a better browser. When I asked about the resolution and the screen size they said that many folks complain the 7135 is too big. I asked why they didn't have either a place for folks to go at the Kyocera site for a survey or query thier customers as to what they would like to see in a 7145(?). The response was they were not set up to do that.

    For the folks wanting their desktop in a walnut, I'm sure the technology is available. But how many folks would be willing to pay $20,000.00 for it.

    If you'll take a look at http://www.palmone.com/us/products/compare/
    you'll see Palm doesn't offer all of the available 'bells-&-whistles' in any one unit.

    I suggest ya'll contact Kyocera,
    http://www.kyocera-wireless.com/info/contact_us.htm
    and let them know what you are wanting.

    But, be real folks. IF the 7135 would have had a 320x320 screen the size of the Tungsten W, a 144, 200 or 400 MHz processor which could speed step to conserve power AND a decent browser, that would have been the trick. The card slot in the side of the 7135 and the cradle connector on the bottom makes available all kinds of possibilities for expansion for those wanting more bells and whistles.
    Last edited by trekbuff; 02-08-2004 at 01:59 PM.
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  2. #2
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    I just replied to you in my thread over at the "7135 as modem for T3" thread. I think Larry Garfield at InfoSync may be onto a very good solution.

    http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/4476.html

    He thinks a full-size unit with a bluetooth headset maybe a perfect solution.

    Pocket PC has both small & full-size smartphones. We'd like a full-size too!
    Last edited by tommunch; 02-08-2004 at 01:59 PM.

  3. #3
    Registered User trekbuff's Avatar
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    Hi Tom

    I just read the article you sited. I pretty much responded to this in the initial string post.

    Mr. Garfield would like to marry a Tungsten W with a Tungsten T3, yet Palm simply didn't do this as I stated earlier.
    http://www.palmone.com/us/products/compare/
    I DO NOT want a keyboard. I also do not like a pull-apart unit for a bigger screen.

    Why only a 33MHZ processor in the Tungsten W and the Kyocera 7135? Why only a 160x160 display in the 7135? Why not a T3 with GSM™/GPRS Service? Besides, Verizon only uses CDMA.

    Would you be happy with what I suggest in the string post for a possible Kyocera 7145 with a good, pocket-safe Bluetooth headset like the Jabra BT250 as a plug-in for those wanting Bluetooth? I believe this is what Mr. Garfield is suggesting, yet the Bluetooth capablilty should be an optional plug-in for those not wanting the added expense and not needing or wanting the Bluetooth. ... The same could be said for WiFi, cameras, nut crackers or remote controls for home theatres.

    Thanks for the pointer to Mr. Garfield's article. Definitely some good info there.
    Last edited by trekbuff; 02-08-2004 at 02:33 PM.
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  4. #4
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    I can take or leave the pull-apart aspect of the T3. I hated it when I first got my T3, but after a few months I don't notice either way. It has become a non-issue for me.

    I agree the thumbboard is not necessary for me, but a lot of Palm users really like them. My biggest complaint against thumbboards are that you must look at the device to enter text. I can write Graffiti while walking & not looking at the device.

    I really do want a 320 x 480 or 480 x 640 display. The web doesn't adapt to a square mode very well, & I think having to scroll side-to-side to see the full width of the screen as some browsers do is also not a solution.

    I think the plug-in idea has already been tried with Handspring's springboard & failed. Each device has a life of a year if it's lucky, & plug-ins are more for third-party vendors. Third-party vendors won't get involved in a device that will only last a year.

    The Samsung SPH-i700 Pocket PC smartphone has a full screen, built-in camera, & a speaker & mic in the handset. I would take that device with the Palm OS for $499 gladly.
    Last edited by tommunch; 02-08-2004 at 04:07 PM.

  5. #5
    Registered User trekbuff's Avatar
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    I still think we're pretty much on track, Tom. "..take or leave.. pull apart.." Okay, leave... lol

    Thumbboard: leave.

    640x480: Now you're talking sub-notebook. You would have loved the Toshiba Libretto 50CT. They didn't last long in the U.S. I still think for a flip or clam-shell phone, we're talking 320x320 to be realistic. Scrolling? You need to do that on a desktop... lol

    By plug-in, I'm talking about a SD sized card with software which could be used with any Palm device with a SD slot. The Bluetooth card would simply plug in to the slot and communicate with the earpiece. As for lasting only a year, how much lasts longer?

    Samsung SPH-i700 Pocket PC: Now you're talking Windows CE.
    http://www.pocketpccentral.net/samsung_ppcs.htm
    You can get a WiFi card for it, but I don't find Bluetooth.

    Hey Tom, check out http://www.palmone.com/us/products/a...rds/bluetooth/
    There's a lot of information there as well as the ad for the Bluetooth card.
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  6. #6
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    You lose the card slot for storage when you take up the card slot with a bluetooth card. I have a 512MB card almost full on my T3. I need storage plus bluetooth for headset like Garfield suggests.

    The new Pocket PC has 640 x 480. I remember the Libretto. I own a Fujitsu that is that size machine. The Newton was also 640 x 480 before Jobs nixed it. 640 x 480 is a standard that would allow for more easily formatted web pages.

    The Samsung doesn't have bluetooth. I like the Samsung for overall form factor.

    ----------------------------------------------

    I don't want to get over-zealous on the small-versus-large form factor. I would love to have a small device that I could still read. I had hoped that the first Treo would allow for larger type & a new GUI, but it didn't. I know Hawkins sees smartphones getting smaller, so I believe Palm will probably go this way. The font on my 7135 is too small to read quickly & easily in poor light. A new GUI would look more like the adapted GUI on the Fossil Palm watch that is now vaporware.

  7. #7
    Registered User dwdod's Avatar
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    Tom and Trek have their own little chat going on here...

    The Samsung SGH i500 (still just rumored) would have it all and still be small in size. The only trouble is it isn't CDMA.

    Take a look at it here...

    http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/3238.html
    Dave

  8. #8
    Registered User trekbuff's Avatar
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    Well. There ya go, folks.

    Can you program the IR to control a home theatre?

    Don't answer that.
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  9. #9
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    The i500 looks okay, but I want a virtual Graffiti area, & I still want a bigger format.

  10. #10
    Registered User theharmonyguy's Avatar
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    Virtual graffiti? That wouldn't seem to work well with a clamshell design imho. However, it appears to me that the i500 does use virtual graffiti - there's no lower area like on a Kyo, and the article says you write on the screen.

    I totally agree with trekbuff here - a "7145" would be fantastic. Thinner, high-res screen, better processor, and NetFront, (and Fitaly ) you'd have a fantastic product. Oh, and definitely CDMA please - preferably EV-DO since that's coming in the next year or so for VZW.

    In fact, a lot of the new rumor devices seem to be GSM - which is why I keep begging for rumors . . . it seems like no one is even contemplating another clamshell, PalmOS, CDMA device. And with EV-DO on the horizon, somebody better be thinking about it too.
    >thg.
    I want an MPx with PalmOS supporting EV-DO on Verizon!! Is anybody listening?? :splat: 8)

    "An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered." - G. K. Chesterton

  11. #11
    Registered User trekbuff's Avatar
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    Thg,

    I don't really need thinner... would be nice, though.

    Blazer helps with the shortcommings of the 160x160 screen, but as Tom says, it's still a bit short on the resolution. The 320x320 screen of the Tungsten W isn't physically that much larger than the 160x160 in the 7135.

    What's NetFront? Is it better than Blazer? Have you tried Blazer? Why is the sky blue rather than orange? Hey... Did you see that rabbit?

    A minimum 200MHz speedstep processor isn't too much to ask for, either.
    So, why did Palm put a 33MHZ proc in the Tungsten W? Rhetorical question...

    I appreciate the comments. There can only be so much in the rascal. Who knows why Kyocera half-stepped technology when, for literally about 30 bucks more in manufacturing cost, we could have my concept of the 7145. Heck, the $199 Tungsten E has a 320x320 screen and a 126MHz processor!

    Maybe later this year once they figure out how to get the nitro out of the batteries.....
    Last edited by trekbuff; 02-08-2004 at 09:09 PM.
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  12. #12
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    If you've used a Newton or even a Tungsten with Graffiti Anywhere you know how difficult it can be to enter text into a specific field without a dedicated Graffiti area - whether virtual or printed. The i500 is more phone than power-user's PDA, although it looks like a very nice piece. I have a feeling I'll be staying with the 7135 for a while - warts & all.

  13. #13
    Registered User trekbuff's Avatar
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    LOL!

    Oh, I NEVER said to leave out the Grafitti area. I really like the way the 7535 is set up. Separating the display from the Grafitti area was one of those "Mother-of-invention" things to make the clamshell.

    Just make the screen 320x320 and speed up the wart, I mean, processor and I'll be a happy camper.

    What's NetFront?
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  14. #14
    Registered User Rstyle's Avatar
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    Truth be told, I don't mind the small screen or the OS 4.0 too much; and the browser dificulties can always be solved with better 3rd party software. But in my opinion the major detraction from a unit like the 7135 that is supposed to be able to 'do it all' (phone/PDA/web browser/e-mail client) is the processor. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say there are times when I've waited about a half second just to see the results of pressing a button because the processor was 'busy'!

    I love my Kyo, but I'd love it even more with a faster, better 'brain' behind all of those features.

  15. #15
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    You're lucky. I've had to wait 10 or 15 seconds sometimes for a response - especially when switching in & out of the phone. I have a 4.1.2 device now which seems to be better. I use to be on a call when someone asked me to check my schedule. I'd press the speakerphone button & the datebook button & then stall 10 seconds so the person on the line wouldn't know I was waiting for my technology.

    I think we all want something a little different, but we're all afraid the future devices will all look like a Treo with a tiny screen, no Graffiti, a thumbboard, & the same old user interface.

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by dwdod
    Tom and Trek have their own little chat going on here...

    The Samsung SGH i500 (still just rumored) would have it all and still be small in size. The only trouble is it isn't CDMA.

    Take a look at it here...

    http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/3238.html
    Actually, the (still only rumored) Samsung i550 seems to be exactly what they want, except no Bluetooth. But it is CDMA; probably will be released on the Sprint network. I still love my 7135 but the i550 may be enough to make me switch (if it only had Bluetooth ).

    Check out these links for more info:

    SGH-i505 on Phone Scoop
    Can Someone Outline all these new Samsung models??
    http://www.smartphoneforums.com/foru...threadid=24945

    The member rave seems to know what he's talking about.

  17. #17
    Registered User Rstyle's Avatar
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    Originally posted by tommunch
    You're lucky. I've had to wait 10 or 15 seconds sometimes for a response - especially when switching in & out of the phone. I have a 4.1.2 device now which seems to be better. I use to be on a call when someone asked me to check my schedule. I'd press the speakerphone button & the datebook button & then stall 10 seconds so the person on the line wouldn't know I was waiting for my technology.

    I think we all want something a little different, but we're all afraid the future devices will all look like a Treo with a tiny screen, no Graffiti, a thumbboard, & the same old user interface.
    How did you upgrade? I've heard a lot about the firmware upgrades here before but have hesitated to pursue one due to mixed feedback. What does everyone think? I am running:
    MZ 1.0.36
    SZ 1.0.23

    I have never experienced any major bugs (including the contrast bug mentioned on this site a lot) and only occasionally get unexplained resets (never lost any data either).

    If I can run faster it would be great, but is it worth it if I'm relatively stable now?

  18. #18
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    I didn't upgrade. I was having trouble with EN, & Verizon swapped out my phone when they thought the trouble might be in the phone.

  19. #19
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    Re: A Realistic Smartphone

    Originally posted by trekbuff
    The way things usually go happened with the 7135. Palms were already available with a 320x320 screen, 126 MHz processors and Palm OS 5.X.X . What did the 7135 come out with? A 160x160 smaller screen, 33 MHz processor and Palm 4.0 . Lest we forget the bugs in the OS ported for the 7135, one of the worst browsers on the planet and batteries blowing up.

    The technology was available at the release of the 7135 to have made it a much better unit. As such, the 7135 was 'almost' the best thing since sliced bread.


    Yes, the technology was available at the *release* of the 7135. Unfortunately they aren't able to develop a 7135 in a day. I think they had to go with was was available when they got into development.

    Lets say you figure about 18 months for development. You go to Palm and they say we'll have OS 5 ready in about 12 months (maybe... scheduling decisions will be driven by their products not your's). You go with whats available (released, supported, etc.) and somewhat matured. Unless you've partnered with them to co-develope a product their interests may not align with yours. Go the other route and you're toast if they run into a big delay, problem, etc. This all assumes that there is anything available at all (even pre-release) to do your development on when you need to.

    I've talked with folks at Kyocera. They say the EIS browser was just to put a browser in the unit and that it is the customers responsibility to find a better browser.

    This is very consistent with Palm philosophy. On the other hand you don't want to cut out the non Palm customers so you just throw something in there. These people have no clue that its a lousy browser since its better than the wap browser on the "regular" phones they've seen. Once a user is sophisticated enough to realize that the browser stinks they will want to choose the browser that fits their personal preferences and use.

    But, be real folks. IF the 7135 would have had a 320x320 screen the size of the Tungsten W, a 144, 200 or 400 MHz processor which could speed step to conserve power AND a decent browser, that would have been the trick.

    It probably would have been released just about now.

    -Quick

  20. #20
    Registered User theharmonyguy's Avatar
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    It probably would have been released just about now.
    Is there no hope . . .

    NetFront is the technology behind the latest version of Blazer (on the Treo 600's) afaik - from what I've read it's the best PalmOS browser technology out there. I have tried Blazer (pre-NetFront), and it was pretty good, though I personally perferred Xiino.
    >thg.
    I want an MPx with PalmOS supporting EV-DO on Verizon!! Is anybody listening?? :splat: 8)

    "An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered." - G. K. Chesterton

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