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  1. #1
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    Angry VZN added pay for data without asking!

    Well, I get last month's bill and wait a minute there's $8 for data ! WTF!

    I called and they offered me a new plan at 50 extra minutes for the same price, but it would restart me on a new 2 year contract....Hmmm, this sounds like a scam to me. So, I said no thanks I 'll keep my original plan and contract signed over a year ago.
    And by the way, why am I now being charged for data??
    This got the "all smart phone have to have pay as you go data or the unlimited plan"! Then, it got downright funny. The rep tells me that VZN is only doing us all a favor because what if the phone stays connected and uses up all of my minutes? Pay as you go will only protect me!
    I got irate and told them that no way they could just change the terms of our contract (and gosh why didn't I jump at the extra 50minutes?!?). And gosh will this favor their doing me cost me any more ? Yeah, right!
    Anyway, he said that it was removed...We'll see how that works...


  2. #2
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    same exact thing happened to me, had them remove the pay as you go and can now use the standard/slow dialup for using just minutes from my plan. I haven't tried it yet, but I heard if you try to use the Express Network they will charge you per kB downloaded.

    JohnA

  3. #3
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    I think that was what they were charging me for. I'll bet that their system will allow the 7135 to access high speed connections whenever it can get them and that they want more money for it.

  4. #4
    Registered User TMWebSites's Avatar
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    My bill for March didn't have an extra charge for data and the details still show the code "AU" on my data calls. My two years on my current plan aren't up until June though.

    Nick
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  5. #5
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    I've had my 7135 through two billing cycles now. Both months I've used qnc liberally but only about 150 on EN. My qnc comes out of my minutes at no extra charge but this month I was billed $2.10 for 141k of EN. That's about two or three webpages. Kim

  6. #6
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    Well, I emailed VZN about the bad charge on my bill for data and they took it off the bill....

  7. #7
    Registered User TMWebSites's Avatar
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    Can you still connect on the faster network?

    They called me a few weeks ago trying to get me to upgrade my phone and plan (the same extra 50 minutes for the same price pitch) and I told them no thanks since I didn't want to lose what I had.

    I also talked to someone in the Verizon store about switching to another phone and they told me that I would have to give up the plan I have and start over and start paying for data separately. She said if I paid full price for a phone that I could just activate it on my current plan and they wouldn't be able to change it.

    Maybe their strategy is to tack the charge on to people's bills and if some start paying it, they win and if some don't, they're no worse off.

    I'll see what my next bill has since it's due today or tomorrow.

    Nick.
    Taylor Made Web Sites and Domain Services
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  8. #8
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    I don't know so far I haven't. But it really p-o's me that they are pulling this crap on people after they sign contracts!

  9. #9
    KoRn fReak ironsoulreaver's Avatar
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    thats a freegin contract violation... i wouldnt worry bout it. if they take it off than your home free. but if they charge you again net month you can say you will cancel your contract they cant charge you the early termination fee. they violated the contract. they will b quick to fix it

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by ironsoulreaver
    thats a freegin contract violation... i wouldnt worry bout it. if they take it off than your home free. but if they charge you again net month you can say you will cancel your contract they cant charge you the early termination fee. they violated the contract. they will b quick to fix it
    I'm curious as to how that's a contract violation. Does your contract guarantee free data or something? IIRC, in the customer agreements and website it states pretty clearly that if you use data, you will be charged. Some people found a loophole, and Verizon is closing that loophole.

    Is there something I'm missing?

  11. #11
    KoRn fReak ironsoulreaver's Avatar
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    if you sign a contract that gives you the old. minutes taken for data access. than they cant charge you for it... if im wrong i dont see why peeps would be camplaining and getting away with it...

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by ironsoulreaver
    if you sign a contract that gives you the old. minutes taken for data access. than they cant charge you for it... if im wrong i dont see why peeps would be camplaining and getting away with it...
    All I'm asking is where in your old contract does it give you minutes for data access, that's all.

    All I've seen is a loophole due to picture messaging that allowed people to use minutes for data. It was never explicitly allowed (except by uninformed CSR's), and they're now closing that loophole and requiring a data plan. Everything I've seen states that you need a data plan...and I've never seen one published that just uses minutes.

    What I'm saying is prove me wrong! In this case I don't want to be right, but I can't see where you can break a contract, sue them, etc....

  13. #13
    KoRn fReak ironsoulreaver's Avatar
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    im not with verizon, so im not sure... but as with my former phone services (ive used all the majors but verizon) they inccluded a data section in the contract.. with t-mobile it came out of the minutes.. than it changed to monthly plan.. than with AT&T it was pay a monthly thing. with virgin it was coming out of your minutes. with sprint, monthly plan.. or pay per use. cingular. pay per use. allltel, monthly cost.
    geeze..... ive used alot of services. i bought a new phone each time. i think the best phone before finding this kyocera was the ole B@W nokia series. ive owned quite a few nokias too... i absolutely hate audiovox though ive owned 2 of those
    Last edited by ironsoulreaver; 04-30-2005 at 03:22 PM.

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by BroadcastDoc
    All I'm asking is where in your old contract does it give you minutes for data access, that's all.

    All I've seen is a loophole due to picture messaging that allowed people to use minutes for data. It was never explicitly allowed (except by uninformed CSR's), and they're now closing that loophole and requiring a data plan. Everything I've seen states that you need a data plan...and I've never seen one published that just uses minutes.

    What I'm saying is prove me wrong! In this case I don't want to be right, but I can't see where you can break a contract, sue them, etc....
    No, unfortunately, you are correct.
    People simply assume that if they didn't get charged for it before and they are getting charged for it now that their contract has been changed... Apparently you actually read yours

    -Quick

  15. #15
    Billy Bo Bob Brain BrerLapn's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Quick
    No, unfortunately, you are correct.
    People simply assume that if they didn't get charged for it before and they are getting charged for it now that their contract has been changed... Apparently you actually read yours

    -Quick
    Not necessarily. When I signed my year-long contract last July, MOU for Express Network was explicitly stated to be part of the plan. Not a loophole. It was the only reason I signed another contract. Putting a clause that says "we can change the terms of this contract at our discretion" doesn't mean that you may do so without calling the status of the other contracting parties' obligations into question. You may not be able to force them to keep letting you use MOU, but I know that at least one person on this forum has been released from their contract early without a fee due to Verizon's change in policy.

    Brer
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  16. #16
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    Originally posted by BrerLapn
    Not necessarily. When I signed my year-long contract last July, MOU for Express Network was explicitly stated to be part of the plan. Not a loophole. It was the only reason I signed another contract. Putting a clause that says "we can change the terms of this contract at our discretion" doesn't mean that you may do so without calling the status of the other contracting parties' obligations into question. You may not be able to force them to keep letting you use MOU, but I know that at least one person on this forum has been released from their contract early without a fee due to Verizon's change in policy.

    Brer
    I think... (it's been a while) there were conditions on the use of Express Network. I seem to remember that even though Express Network was included as MOU in the plan there were (rather vague) restrictions on it's use. i.e. no tethered usage, etc... There intent for Express Network MOU was to enable GIN, txt messaging, and later picture messaging.

    The early release from contract is interesting. Can you give any details? Was it specifically about the data thing?

    -Quick

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by BrerLapn
    Not necessarily. When I signed my year-long contract last July, MOU for Express Network was explicitly stated to be part of the plan. Not a loophole. It was the only reason I signed another contract. Putting a clause that says "we can change the terms of this contract at our discretion" doesn't mean that you may do so without calling the status of the other contracting parties' obligations into question. You may not be able to force them to keep letting you use MOU, but I know that at least one person on this forum has been released from their contract early without a fee due to Verizon's change in policy.

    Brer
    Was it written into the contract, or were you told it was OK? MOU was never officially offered as a data plan. It was added for picture messaging and Get it Now. People only later (on their own) figured out that it could be used for data. So having NA-MOU in itself does not give you any recourse. Now, if your contract states that you can use it for data other than GIN or pix messaging, you have something. If not, then Verizon has the upper hand. The written agreement is what is enforced.
    Last edited by BroadcastDoc; 05-02-2005 at 10:25 AM.

  18. #18
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    my contract has a section called "enhanced features", which has an item called "mobile web" checked off at $4.99/month.

  19. #19
    Registered User TMWebSites's Avatar
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    Originally posted by emorgana
    my contract has a section called "enhanced features", which has an item called "mobile web" checked off at $4.99/month.
    Mobile Web is not the same thing as EN and is not needed on the 7135 since you can get to the web without it, even on a regular plan.

    My EN out of minutes is not a loophole. When I and most other people changed our plans to get it, it was a simple upgrade. Some people had to sign up for a new contract and others, such as myself, did not. Verizon set up the plan and had no equipment restrictions at the time. The tradeoff in my plan was that I ended up with restricted voicemail, I can only get 3 messages unless I pay extra for more.

    At some point they did stop offering it but that is common with plans. They come and go and if you want to stick with the one you have, you can as long as you don't sign a new contract. If they've changed the rules regarding that in the last two years, it's not my problem. As far as I'm concerned, I'm grandfathered in to the plan I have and it will not change.

    Of course Verizon tried to get me away from it recently by offering me more minutes for the same price but when questioned, they said I would lose my current EN access unless I got a data plan. It wasn't worth it for me so I refused.

    I got my bill over the weekend and there is no charge for a data plan even though I used EN quite a bit last month.

    Nick.
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  20. #20
    Billy Bo Bob Brain BrerLapn's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Quick
    I think... (it's been a while) there were conditions on the use of Express Network. I seem to remember that even though Express Network was included as MOU in the plan there were (rather vague) restrictions on it's use. i.e. no tethered usage, etc... There intent for Express Network MOU was to enable GIN, txt messaging, and later picture messaging.

    The early release from contract is interesting. Can you give any details? Was it specifically about the data thing?

    -Quick
    Sorry, I have looked around but can't find the thread it was in. It was somewhere on this site, though. The early release was specifically related to their attempt to change the data. I believe that the person who posted was able to get that because he insisted that he had specifically relied on their representation when he signed the contract that he would have MOU as a part of the deal. I personally have only used EN for email and PDA web browsing, so I doubt I would run afoul of any restrictions (no using as a wireless modem).

    Was it written into the contract, or were you told it was OK? MOU was never officially offered as a data plan. It was added for picture messaging and Get it Now. People only later (on their own) figured out that it could be used for data. So having NA-MOU in itself does not give you any recourse. Now, if your contract states that you can use it for data other than GIN or pix messaging, you have something. If not, then Verizon has the upper hand. The written agreement is what is enforced.
    I am not sure which box my contract is in so I can't take a look. I do recall that they were advertising MOU at the time. I was definitely told at the time that I could use it for data; I didn't "sneak" it onto the phone. To pick a legal nit, if the MOU turned out not to be in my contract and they tried to enforce the agreement, I would probably countersue for fraudulent inducement, basing the counterclaim on their verbal representations and their advertising at the time. I would then beat the hell out of their arguments in discovery by finding out the full story of their internal communications on the issue. Given the way they treat customers, I doubt it would be too hard to track down the incriminating emails or paper trail. And fraudulent inducement would allow for me to claim punitive damages, unlike their breach of contract claim, which would only be to collect the $175 early termination fee.

    But that's just off the top of my head; I haven't looked up any specific elements of claims to estimate the viability of such an action and this post certainly doesn't constitute legal advice. I just wanted to point out that their written agreement isn't as ironclad as it might appear. More importantly, and I know this repeatedly from personal experience, being firm but pleasant in asserting what you believe you are entitled to as a matter of fairness will get you much farther than pulling the lawyer card, which I suspect is why the representative let the guy out of his contract early.
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