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  1. #1
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    Audiovox 6600 WC or wait for the HTC Universal?

    I have been researching the purchase of a pocket pc with a phone for quite some time now and had recently settled on the Audiovox xv6600 with camera due, in large, part to much of the info posted here. The only thing holding me back at this point is the announcement regarding the HTC Universal. I understand that people can have very different preferences and opinions, but, based on the information below, I would appreciate any opinions on whether I should wait for the HTC Universal to come out or go ahead and buy the Audiovox:

    1. This will be my first PDA. However, I’m fairly technically savvy and understand the need for patience, time and effort when it comes to using certain technologies. For example, I have been using voice recognition software for a long time and find that, for many, it is a very frustrating and/or less useful technology because they have unrealistic expectations and aren’t willing to put in the time to make the technology useful. That won’t be the case with me.
    2. SCREEN – I definitely want a larger screen (e.g., as opposed to the i730) and, obviously, would prefer as good a screen as possible. I will be viewing web pages, gps maps, reading e-mail, and reading/revising documents.
    3. INTERNET CONNECTION SPEED – I live in Los Angeles and the EV-DO speeds are a primary selling point for me. However, I have no idea what the difference between EV-DO and 3G is in terms of cost (which another poster in another thread said were significant, but didn’t get give numbers). More importantly, I have no idea what the practical effect of the different speeds would be in connection with my intended uses. Of course, it’s very possible to believe that a certain technology is all you will need until you see what another technology can do or a program is created which requires different technology and then you wish you had the better technology.
    4. WM 5.0 – not having used any OS yet, it’s hard to know whether the new OS is worth waiting for and whether it will greatly improve how I use the PDA. I realize that answering the question is particularly difficult since one key advantage is that the new OS will allow developers some great new options, but we probably really won’t know how that manifests itself for quite some time.
    5. KEYBOARD – This is an important feature for me. And since I have not tried the Universal’s keyboard, it’s obviously hard to get a sense of the difference/benefit between it and the Audiovox. I definitely want good backlighting. I have medium hand size and will probably be using the keyboard a lot.
    6. COST – I am fortunate enough that this is not a primary concern.
    7. BATTERY LIFE – I will probably use the device an hour a day during the week and probably 3-4 hours a day on the weekends. The extended batteries for the Audiovox seem to make this point moot for me and I imagine there will be similar options for the Universal.
    8. TELEPHONE – I am not a heavy phone user.
    9. PRODUCT MATURITY – Obviously, this would strongly favor the Audiovox since there is such a body of knowledge, updates, fixes, third party apps, etc. already out there, but maybe the Universal and the new OS will make the Universal ready for prime time when it ships as opposed to patches, updates, fixes, and third party apps to get it there.
    10. WAIT TIME – I’ve gone this long and another 6 months or so isn’t a big deal if I get the feeling it’s worth it. I say 6 months based on some preliminary reports and realize that could very well change.

    What say you? TIA

    Best,
    MA

  2. #2
    I'm a total loser and I've been banned!!!
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    Are you now or have you ever been involved in any arbitration, dispute, litigation, or other court action where you represented either the MPAA, the RIAA, any party seeking its rights under the DMCA, or any IP action?

    Ehud
    (yes, my helping is predicated on finding out if you're a good guy lawyer.)

  3. #3
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    I almost lost my Sam Smith Oatmeal Stout reading that one, ehud

  4. #4
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    Something told me you might be one of the first to respond

    The answer to your question is yes. However, it’s a fairly broad question and I’d like to clarify my answer. First off, I am not a litigator. I am a transactional attorney that represents recording artists, record producers, songwriters, composers, managers, and other individuals in the music industry. I do not do any “institutional” work (e.g., represent a major label). I have never represented, in any capacity, the MPAA or the RIAA.

    However, I have represented clients (but not in court) with respect to their particular concerns regarding the DMCA (e.g., issues with collection of digital performance rights monies) and have certainly represented clients in disputes involving IP (e.g., a songwriter who claims another songwriter stole their work). I don’t know if you will determine that I am a “good guy” lawyer, but I used to post at PocketPCPassion quite a bit and hopefully somebody from there also posts in this forum and can chime in with information that will help you decide.

    Since I know you advocate searching, you can visit www.talkbass.com and search the Band Management and Performance forum where I have posted some. You can also visit the board over at www.marcusmiller.com. I can provide additional references upon request.

    MA

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    I think the actual question that ehud wanted to ask was not whether you were a good lawyer but whether you supported the RIAA and others involved in pursuing parties who download music and movies via peer to peer software. Either side may or may not have their share of good and bad lawyers, which side they represent does not answer the question of the quality of their "lawyering" skills.

    R

  6. #6
    Fisher of Men mwfielder's Avatar
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    I would say this. If cost isn't a concern, then buy the 6600 now on VzW. Then you'll have a darn good device, get to know the pdaphone world, and see if the HTC Universal/MDA IV is released and if it is any good. Waiting on devices is never fun, and it always takes longer than you think.
    Last edited by mwfielder; 05-14-2005 at 09:46 PM.
    Jeremiah 29:11

  7. #7
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    racedog: I’ve read enough of Ehud's posts and I think I’ll let Ehud determine what his “actual” question was. In addition, I would prefer this thread not deteriorate into an RIAA bash (notwithstanding the fact they may deserve it). We can meet in another, more appropriate, forum if you wish to continue this discussion with me.

    mwfielder: Thanks. I should have mentioned that I realize my first purchase is most likely going to be one which serves to let me know what to look for in my second PDA

    Heading out to dinner now. I’ll check back in awhile.

    MA

  8. #8
    Terminally Converged rduckwor1's Avatar
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    Re: Audiovox 6600 WC or wait for the HTC Universal?

    Well, since I'm not an attorney and no longer a practicing musician, but have been guilty of downloading music via the net (just really old stuff that I couldn't order anywhere, not that this excuses me), I'll take a stab at your questions.

    First, the Harrier platform has matured quite a bit since release, to the point, IMHO, that it is useable on a daily basis as one's primary means of PDA storage and personal communications. As evidenced by the wealth of knowledge here and elsewhere, one can find just about anything one needs to make it work well. Unless you desire life on the bleeding edge, as many here do, no need to wait for the HTC Universal/Apache, or whatever they happen to call it today. It may be here in six months or never depending upon our friends the carriers; a group of people that distinctly do not like living on the bleeding edge as their time lines for new device releases seem to show.

    See below for specifics on your questions:



    Originally posted by Music Attorney


    1. This will be my first PDA. However, I’m fairly technically savvy and understand the need for patience, time and effort when it comes to using certain technologies. For example, I have been using voice recognition software for a long time and find that, for many, it is a very frustrating and/or less useful technology because they have unrealistic expectations and aren’t willing to put in the time to make the technology useful. That won’t be the case with me.

    >> Its possible to purchase and operate a very stable Harrier to day with minimal resets and foibles. Understand that MS Voice Command is good, but has its drawbacks, i.e. no functionality via BT. Patience will always serve you well with MS operating Systems though. Depending upon your tech savy, the learning curve may be short or long. Assuming your have some experience with the Windows OS, it will not be totally unfamiliar, though possibly a bit less intuitive than the Palm OS.

    2. SCREEN – I definitely want a larger screen (e.g., as opposed to the i730) and, obviously, would prefer as good a screen as possible. I will be viewing web pages, gps maps, reading e-mail, and reading/revising documents.

    >> The screen on the Harrier is pretty good IMO. I suggest that you go to a vendor and take a good look at several iterations to determine if its good enough for your needs. One man's good is another's not-so-hot. For serious document work, I suggest that it is not good enough. Web pages and email - yes; legal docs, hmmm . . maybe not -so-hot.

    3. INTERNET CONNECTION SPEED – I live in Los Angeles and the EV-DO speeds are a primary selling point for me. However, I have no idea what the difference between EV-DO and 3G is in terms of cost (which another poster in another thread said were significant, but didn’t get give numbers). More importantly, I have no idea what the practical effect of the different speeds would be in connection with my intended uses. Of course, it’s very possible to believe that a certain technology is all you will need until you see what another technology can do or a program is created which requires different technology and then you wish you had the better technology.

    >>Your current choice for EVDO now is Verizon - $44.95 all-you-can-eat data. SPCS isn't there yet and says that they will be there by mid-year. There is great concern that they will limit their EVDO access to new purchases only and they are fools if they do so. Today's Harrier may not work on the SPCS network tomorrow.

    Trust me, if you plan on web use and much email, you do want the EVDO speeds on about 200-400 kbps average.


    4. WM 5.0 – not having used any OS yet, it’s hard to know whether the new OS is worth waiting for and whether it will greatly improve how I use the PDA. I realize that answering the question is particularly difficult since one key advantage is that the new OS will allow developers some great new options, but we probably really won’t know how that manifests itself for quite some time.

    >>Not yet ready for prime time. We have no idea whether our devices will get it or what it will truly mean for the next generations of devices. Essentially vaporware today despite the heat and light that MS generated last week.

    Given that the half-life of one of these devices is about 12 months, you're probably safe buying the current generation/OS and upgrading the device later on.

    5. KEYBOARD – This is an important feature for me. And since I have not tried the Universal’s keyboard, it’s obviously hard to get a sense of the difference/benefit between it and the Audiovox. I definitely want good backlighting. I have medium hand size and will probably be using the keyboard a lot.

    >>The Harrier keyboard is acceptable once you get used to it. Probably the Treo keyboards are a bit more user-friendly, but then again, no Treo has EVDO access to date and they have smaller (albeit higher resolution) screens. You will not love typing long documents on either device.

    6. COST – I am fortunate enough that this is not a primary concern.

    >>Assuming data costs would be a business expense for you as well, Verizon is a reasonable choice here.

    7. BATTERY LIFE – I will probably use the device an hour a day during the week and probably 3-4 hours a day on the weekends. The extended batteries for the Audiovox seem to make this point moot for me and I imagine there will be similar options for the Universal.

    >>True enough.

    8. TELEPHONE – I am not a heavy phone user.

    >>That's to your advantage as the phone interface in the Harrier is not as highly integrated into the OS as the Palm systems. Works fine, but just differently and bit bit prickish at times.

    9. PRODUCT MATURITY – Obviously, this would strongly favor the Audiovox since there is such a body of knowledge, updates, fixes, third party apps, etc. already out there, but maybe the Universal and the new OS will make the Universal ready for prime time when it ships as opposed to patches, updates, fixes, and third party apps to get it there.

    >>Trust me,. there will be patches, updates, and hacks for WM2005 as well. No OS is ever released in a mature and complete state. They will be different, but they will be there nevertheless

    10. WAIT TIME – I’ve gone this long and another 6 months or so isn’t a big deal if I get the feeling it’s worth it. I say 6 months based on some preliminary reports and realize that could very well change.

    >> Well , since we really don't know if any carrier will bite on the Universal/Apache, that's really a decision you need to make.

    What say you? TIA

    Best,
    MA
    Good Luck,

    Bob Duckworth

  9. #9
    Terminally Converged rduckwor1's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, don't mind Ehud. He likes to push a button or two. He, Dan, and mwfielder know these device better than anyone here and are great sources of good info.

    Ehud's web site has every patch worth having if you should need them. Also read his tongue-in-cheek FAQ's.

    Good Luck,

    Bob Duckworth

  10. #10
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    Re: Audiovox 6600 WC or wait for the HTC Universal?

    My question was phrased appropriately, and needed no further clarification. Similarly, your answer was in the scope of what I was hoping to get

    1&2 not questions, but good comments.
    3. EV-DO *is* 3G for the purposes of today's CDMA technology.
    4. Not yet available.
    5. Thus far the biggest keyboard out there. If you like the membrane (Atari 400 style keyboard this is for you. If you prefer smaller yet button-oriented ones, then the 730/other may be for you. This is a personal subjective opinion.
    6. Not a question
    7. Neither HTC (The OEM) nor Audiovox (the brander) sell an extended battery. LiOn sells one by Mugen that has issues that they claim are fixed (See separate thread.) I'd put this one on the "hold for later news" category.
    8. Pardon me but I think you're missing the beauty of a 'converged' device. It's not as much about whether you use the phone but that WHEN you do you'll find you don't need to look at one contact and type in the number. Similarly when someone SMSs you and you want to store that... it's no cut and paste... I could go on, but you get the point.

    9. Here's the crux of it. If you don't need it, don't get it. If you do, do. It's *ALWAYS* a tradeoff between buy-it-now (pay more, get less features) and buy-something-later (pay less, get more features).

    We used to tell people in the modem days... don't buy it till you just can't live without it. It will be faster and cheaper.
    The same is true for you, apparently.

    E
    p.s. Thank you for your respectful answer of my question. I try to help everyone; I'm happy you're part of the everyone I try to help
    p.p.s. Res ipsa loquitor

    Originally posted by Music Attorney
    I have been researching the purchase of a pocket pc with a phone for quite some time now and had recently settled on the Audiovox xv6600 with camera due, in large, part to much of the info posted here. The only thing holding me back at this point is the announcement regarding the HTC Universal. I understand that people can have very different preferences and opinions, but, based on the information below, I would appreciate any opinions on whether I should wait for the HTC Universal to come out or go ahead and buy the Audiovox:

    1. This will be my first PDA. However, I’m fairly technically savvy and understand the need for patience, time and effort when it comes to using certain technologies. For example, I have been using voice recognition software for a long time and find that, for many, it is a very frustrating and/or less useful technology because they have unrealistic expectations and aren’t willing to put in the time to make the technology useful. That won’t be the case with me.
    2. SCREEN – I definitely want a larger screen (e.g., as opposed to the i730) and, obviously, would prefer as good a screen as possible. I will be viewing web pages, gps maps, reading e-mail, and reading/revising documents.
    3. INTERNET CONNECTION SPEED – I live in Los Angeles and the EV-DO speeds are a primary selling point for me. However, I have no idea what the difference between EV-DO and 3G is in terms of cost (which another poster in another thread said were significant, but didn’t get give numbers). More importantly, I have no idea what the practical effect of the different speeds would be in connection with my intended uses. Of course, it’s very possible to believe that a certain technology is all you will need until you see what another technology can do or a program is created which requires different technology and then you wish you had the better technology.
    4. WM 5.0 – not having used any OS yet, it’s hard to know whether the new OS is worth waiting for and whether it will greatly improve how I use the PDA. I realize that answering the question is particularly difficult since one key advantage is that the new OS will allow developers some great new options, but we probably really won’t know how that manifests itself for quite some time.
    5. KEYBOARD – This is an important feature for me. And since I have not tried the Universal’s keyboard, it’s obviously hard to get a sense of the difference/benefit between it and the Audiovox. I definitely want good backlighting. I have medium hand size and will probably be using the keyboard a lot.
    6. COST – I am fortunate enough that this is not a primary concern.
    7. BATTERY LIFE – I will probably use the device an hour a day during the week and probably 3-4 hours a day on the weekends. The extended batteries for the Audiovox seem to make this point moot for me and I imagine there will be similar options for the Universal.
    8. TELEPHONE – I am not a heavy phone user.
    9. PRODUCT MATURITY – Obviously, this would strongly favor the Audiovox since there is such a body of knowledge, updates, fixes, third party apps, etc. already out there, but maybe the Universal and the new OS will make the Universal ready for prime time when it ships as opposed to patches, updates, fixes, and third party apps to get it there.
    10. WAIT TIME – I’ve gone this long and another 6 months or so isn’t a big deal if I get the feeling it’s worth it. I say 6 months based on some preliminary reports and realize that could very well change.

    What say you? TIA

    Best,
    MA
    Last edited by Ehud; 05-14-2005 at 10:05 PM.

  11. #11
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    I just don't get it?

    Reading this thread, I'm a bit confused. Music Attorney says that cost isn't a factor and he obviously has done a lot of work that suggests the release of the new device may be six months away or more, not counting the time it takes to "get the bugs out".

    So, with these devices costing only about $500, isn't the obvious answer to buy the current gen device now, use it until the new device is available and deemed stable, and then upgrade? I don't know what device Music Attorney is using right now, but wouldn't an extra, say, 9 months of 6600 functionality be worth $500 to someone for whom cost isn't a big factor? I mean, a couple of months to wait, I can understand, but waiting for a device that hasn't yet been released that will run an OS that hasn't yet been released and depending on a version of ActiveSync that hasn't yet been released...sheesh!

    In any event, I can assure you that 9 months from now, the HTC Universal will no longer be perceived as the hottest thing coming (or going)...there will be some other device(s) that are "just around the corner" that the posters on this board will claim will blow away anything then currently available...

  12. #12
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    You say high speed data is a requirement: The HTC universal is made to run on a 2100mhz UMTS network that doesnt exist in the USA. In the US you will have to fall back to GPRS data at 50kbps. I dont think there is anyway the HTC universal can live up to your requirement.

    If there is a CDMA EVDO version of the Universal this argument would be moot but right now I have seen no evidence of one. The current GSM version will most likely not even be released in the US as it is a 900/1800/1900/2100 band handheld and thus optimized for use in europe and asia.

    It is possible that there is a CDMA version, its possible that cingular or T-Mobile will start from scratch and build up a respectable UMTS network and then launch a US optimized version of the Universal. But these things are rather uncertain and frankly unlikely to happen in 6 months. The Universal also has no firm release date and will be the first handheld with a new operating system. I would expect bugs.

    The Universal just doesnt seem like a good choice. If at some point it looks more attractive (say 6-8 months down the road) than I might consider it.
    PPC-6700, Treo 700wx, Samsung IP-i830w, Motorola i580, LG Fusic. Mix well, add accessories, consume.

  13. #13
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    I haven't seen much other than pictures and WM5 info on it.

    Does any site have specs on it -
    processor
    dimensions
    screen resolution
    BT version

    Also almost every picture I've seen is the one stock photo - I'd like to know more about how it folds - hinge action. Does it have an OLED screen on the top?
    Want better phone selection from Sprint? http://www.smartphoneforums.com/foru...ease-read.html

  14. #14
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    http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=558366

    Here is a nice long thread on it.

    520-620MHZ processor
    WM2005
    bigger than the ppc6600/vx6600
    640x480
    BT1.2?, WIFI
    quad band GSM 900/1800/1900/2100
    2 cameras. 1.3mp for pics, VGA for video telephone use.
    No external caller id when in closed position


    Here are a few less commonly seen pictures. You might note the design is slightly different in some, different prototypes.











    See it in Bill Gate's webcast: http://www.microsoft.com/events/exec...billgates.mspx
    Last edited by BryanHarig; 05-15-2005 at 11:20 AM.
    PPC-6700, Treo 700wx, Samsung IP-i830w, Motorola i580, LG Fusic. Mix well, add accessories, consume.

  15. #15
    boe
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    Bryan,

    Thanks for the info!

    I didn't know it was going to have the 640x480 - that is sweet! Wonder if those have to be any thicker - hopefully not.

    The lack of external display - makes it a useless phone to me but the screen gives me hope for other better phones not being as far away. If Samsung managed to make something like this only a little smaller I'd be stoked.
    Want better phone selection from Sprint? http://www.smartphoneforums.com/foru...ease-read.html

  16. #16
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    RE caller ID:

    The idea is that you could just twist it into tablet form and use it like we use out ppc6600s now. But I think it silly not to include a caller ID on the outside because I would prefer to store it closed for greater protection of the screen.
    PPC-6700, Treo 700wx, Samsung IP-i830w, Motorola i580, LG Fusic. Mix well, add accessories, consume.

  17. #17
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    if the MDA was available with verizon i would get it in a heartbeat. but it's not. what is available in the next 4 weeks is the samsung i730. i bought a couple of 6600's a month or two ago and they are history next month. if you are waiting , wait for that one. this is the best advice you are going to get here today.
    bar none.

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by madtechgeek
    if the MDA was available with verizon i would get it in a heartbeat. but it's not. what is available in the next 4 weeks is the samsung i730. i bought a couple of 6600's a month or two ago and they are history next month. if you are waiting , wait for that one. this is the best advice you are going to get here today.
    bar none.
    thats exactly what I would have said if he hadnt said

    2. SCREEN – I definitely want a larger screen (e.g., as opposed to the i730) and, obviously, would prefer as good a screen as possible. I will be viewing web pages, gps maps, reading e-mail, and reading/revising documents.
    PPC-6700, Treo 700wx, Samsung IP-i830w, Motorola i580, LG Fusic. Mix well, add accessories, consume.

  19. #19
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    Thanks everyone. I really appreciate all of the feedback and plan to move forward with the Audiovox.

    To those suggesting the Samsung i730: it’s very tempting, but I just think I’m going to be disappointed with the screen size which is a major consideration for me.

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