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  1. #1
    I'm a total loser and I've been banned!!!
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    Can you really turn a phone into a brick?

    Dutifully I've warned everyone attempting to upgrade the phone that a bad procedure could turn the phone into an expensive brick.

    Lately, I've been wondering if I've succumbed to the CYA-Syndrome. In other words, am I telling people something that isn't true.

    It's my working theory that the bootloader cannot be harmed by normal flashing behavior, and given that, any phone can be restored to working condition.

    Yesterday I took my phone and restored 1.35 to it... and the VZW extended ROM in preparation for returning it to VZW. They had sent me a new one because of my [problem discussed in the HA01_141 thread].

    I have a xv6600 with cam, and while there is no update for it, I used the Magician upgrade to put the 6600woc CE image and the Extrom image on it.

    I guess I'm calling on you people who have done flash upgrades to say "Ehud my phone would not work, and bootloader or not it was hosed" or "no, I recovered. I was worried for a bit... btu got it all sorted out."

    I've also checked out all the X-d threads, and they all have the same warnings I've been dishing out, but the experienced users (m3u, l2c, etc) all seem to say what I'm now accepting as my working theory.

    Comments?

    Ehud

  2. #2
    Fisher of Men mwfielder's Avatar
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    I only got caught once thinking I fried my phone---but, as you say, I reflashed and everything was fine. I think you are right. As long as you are reflashing a functioning device, you should be fine.
    Jeremiah 29:11

  3. #3
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    llllllllllll;777777777777777777777777777777777

    Sorry. Cat walking on the keyboard.

    Is the camera version a different rom? I know that my woc comes with the camera app.

    Would you be able to load the woc update and have it come out looking stock?
    Last edited by cougargt; 06-26-2005 at 01:19 AM.

  4. #4
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    Or better yet.....Take a rom dump SD card to your local store and dump the rom from a camera version.

  5. #5
    I'm a total loser and I've been banned!!!
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    If you use the VZW stuff it says the update is not for that model, and won't allow putting it on.

    However, from experience, having owned both, I know the only difference is in (hardware and) the extrom adding the mms* packages. (mentioned in a post of mine ages ago).

    The point is you can't just run their install program for the WC, you have to manually install the ROMs.

    E

  6. #6
    Registered User IvanLasston's Avatar
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    I am tending to concur, but am unsure about what happens, if you interrupt an actual flash.

    From what I can tell, what people call bricked, is actually bootloader. Nothing happens on the phone because there is nothing on the phone. There is no such thing as resetting once in bootloader. So when you restart the ROM flash program, as long as you are in bootloader, the flash should work sooner or later.

    The good news is no one takes flashing a ROM lightly, and they shouldn't.

    That being said, I am unsure what happens to the ROM if you interrupt an actual flash write. Imagine yanking out any drive in the middle of writing. What happens? I don't know and I don't care to experiment. So if your write stalls for some reason, it probably means the write process has stopped. Rebooting the PC and starting again, shouldn't hurt. If you always see the white screen and usb or serial and a number, it means you haven't left bootloader, nothing is writing, and you should be OK.

    If someone is bored, has a lot of money, try pulling the PPC in the middle of a write a couple of times and tell us what happens. (DON'T DO THAT)
    AT&T Jailbroken Iphone 3G 2.2

  7. #7
    I'm a total loser and I've been banned!!!
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    Well truth be told, when I was going from 2.03 to 1.35, I did pull it during one point. I realized that I wan't going to be doing the extrom at the same time... So I stopped it. I did so by power cycling the ppc and rebooting the pc. (I suspect I could have just killed the PC process and restarted, but I wanted to reset to known state).

    When I restarted, bootloader on the ppc, selected both CE update and EXTROM update... and both worked

    One example does not a rule make... but there's "a" datum.

    E

  8. #8
    Registered User IvanLasston's Avatar
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    Yeah E, I pulled out my laptop hard drive, thinking it was off, it was only in sleep mode. Got the blue screen of death. That drive still works. Doesn't mean I want to keep trying.
    AT&T Jailbroken Iphone 3G 2.2

  9. #9
    I'm a total loser and I've been banned!!!
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    The beautiful thing about the Win32 kernel is that state information is in memory. You took the drive out when it was asleep, so it had no way of writing anything to it afterward. That means the drive would be 100% ok.

    The computer blue-screened because the drive was gone, but once it rebooted, it would have lost the state information that had the error in it, and would reset to known state.

    In other words, you can pull a parked hard drive out of a sleeping computer anytime, providing however that you either put it back in the same computer prior to waking it up *or* only put it into a computer which has been reset.*

    Ehud
    * the exception of course is you could put it into a computer that doesn't expect it to contain a running os. For example a linux system... a system already booted from another os... etc.

  10. #10
    Registered User IvanLasston's Avatar
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    Ah yes, correct, the drive wasn't really being written to, the mechanics were shut down as well. It was in standby, not hibernation mode, thats why there was a blue screen. My bad.

    But that is my original point. As long as you aren't actually writing to the flash I think you are OK. I'd personally error on the safe side and suggest not to yank out the PPC while writing to flash for the same reasons as not yanking out any re-writeable media in the middle of a write.
    AT&T Jailbroken Iphone 3G 2.2

  11. #11
    Registered User luv2chill's Avatar
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    Yep bootloader is read-only, so there's really no way to screw it up short of physically damaging it (sort of like you can't screw up a CD-ROM boot disc unless you scratch it).

    That said, I like the brick disclaimer because it helps scare off people who don't have the knowledge or skills to be attempting such an upgrade in the first place. I am all for ROM upgrading, but only if one knows what they are doing and is competent enough to get through the process without much handholding.

    Dan

  12. #12
    Insane PDAer with a MOGUL!!!! centauress's Avatar
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    Well, at least those who will follow directions EXACTLY!! If people decide that directions are for pussies, they deserve to be panicked by the 'brick' statement.

    That'll make a few extra bucks for those of us who do follow directions, covering their asses...
    Sprint customer since Mar 01, PPC user since Apr 04 and Technophile since birth!
    Oct 06: Now completely convereged, connected and livin' large! Tablet PC+PPC = Ultimate Happiness!!! Woo-Hoo!

  13. #13
    I'm a total loser and I've been banned!!!
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    [ Kentauride ]
    E

  14. #14
    Fisher of Men mwfielder's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ehud
    [ Kentauride ]
    E
    Had to go to Google on this....still couldn't figure this out! This was the only English site that linked it, and I couldn't find it anyway...http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7969/keywords.html

    So what does it mean, E?
    Jeremiah 29:11

  15. #15
    I was never here. Disgruntledtech's Avatar
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    yeah i had a customer that 'bricked' his 660x 'cause his laptop battery died and he decided to soft reset during the flash to 'start it over' all it did was boot to the windows logo but never displayed the rom info at the bottom -we recovered it with the record+power+magic button & software update

    so i know it can be done. -but you still won't see me volunteering my personal device as a test subject.
    Create DialPad Skins for your 6600 with SkinGen

  16. #16
    I'm a total loser and I've been banned!!!
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    Originally posted by mwfielder
    Had to go to Google on this....still couldn't figure this out! This was the only English site that linked it, and I couldn't find it anyway...http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7969/keywords.html

    So what does it mean, E?
    Interesting... you apparently found a weakness in google.

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...rch&lr=lang_en

    Centauress != female centaur = Kentauride.

    E

  17. #17
    It only hurts at first... Jeremy McCreary's Avatar
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    Ehud,

    You guys may not have the requisite skills, but I'm pretty sure my dog succeeded in turning my xv6600wc into a brick.

    I was 2-3 minutes into flashing the ROM with the official 1.36 maintenance release from Audiovox when a loud sound outside caused my dog to run under my desk to hide. That's when he stepped on the switch for the surge protector powering -- you guessed it -- the cradle.

    I could barely make out "SERIAL v. 1.20" on the dim screen. The unit was completely unresponsive. Tried soft and hard resets, removing the battery, the power+record+magic button combo mentioned below -- nothing.

    From the posts here, sounds like an expert might be able to salvage it after all (no physical damage), but my wife the acct holder somehow talked Verizon into sending us a free replacement, so it may be academic at this point.

    Now if she could just talk our kids into doing some chores...
    Last edited by Jeremy McCreary; 07-15-2005 at 03:35 AM.
    xv6600 (verizon) | still a great PDA even with a dead radio (in hardware) | sure hope the xv6800 fairy comes soon...

  18. #18
    I was never here. Disgruntledtech's Avatar
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    power+record+magic button combo has never failed me before. i don't see how it coulda failed for you since the bootloader is never written to in any of the updates.
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  19. #19
    It only hurts at first... Jeremy McCreary's Avatar
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    power+record+magic button combo has never failed me before. i don't see how it coulda failed for you since the bootloader is never written to in any of the updates.
    Hmmm, I must be pressing the wrong 'magic' button. Which one are you pressing?
    xv6600 (verizon) | still a great PDA even with a dead radio (in hardware) | sure hope the xv6800 fairy comes soon...

  20. #20
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    Since bootloader is a true ROM (not write possible) I don't think you can brick it unless that area becomes damaged/corrupt, etc.
    Dan Kunz - XV6600

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