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  1. #1
    Registered User rbelikov's Avatar
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    DUN and quick2net not possible on xv6600?!!

    I believe the XV6600 seems to be incapable of dialing in to an ISP or quick2net, despite several posts to the contrary in this forum. Verizon seems to be purposefully limiting any internet connections through the xv6600 to their pricy broadband/national access service. Here is what led me to this conclusion:

    I delete all the connections in connections settings (i.e. the CDMA2000 connection that comes preinstalled). Sure enough, when I launch explorer, it complains that it's missing a connection.

    Then, I set up a bogus dial-up connection (to dial into my other phone).

    I launch explorer, clear all files and history, and launch a random page. The usual balloon pops up telling me it's dialing my bogus connection... the phone it's supposed to dial does not ring... but it creates the bogus connection anyway and the page downloads... at EV-DO speeds... {Twilight zone theme plays}

    Clicking on the antenna icon shows that I am connected through my bogus number, and even shows the time spent online. In connections settings, there is no trace of the old CDMA2000 connection, only my bogus connection.

    Performing soft-reboots at all key points in this procedure doesn't change anything.

    The only explanation is that I'm still using broadband/national access and, unbeknowst to me, paying for each Goddamn kb. I have seen many posts claiming people have done dial-up or quick2net connections, but in light of above I think xv6600 ignores all such settings (including its own CDMA2000) and just goes through the apparently hardwired broadband/national access. To make things worse, it creates a very convincing illusion that it connects through dial-up.

    If this is true, Verizon has some nerve crippling the device in this manner, especially when their sales and customer support is utterly clueless about it. Very unprofessional and sleasy. They have just succeeded in preventing me from using internet on the device except for emergencies (I have the pay-for-kb plan).

    I am hoping very much somebody will prove me wrong. I'd love to be able to browse for free on nights and weekends.

  2. #2
    The Cartman of Convergence
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    So you want to steal bandwidth and those arrogant people at Verizon actually have the nerve to try and protect what belongs to them? Shame on them. You get what you pay for...

  3. #3
    Registered User rbelikov's Avatar
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    dude, I'm not stealing bandwidth -- I just want to have the option of using my device with another ISP. What they are doing is like selling a car where only one type of expensive tires will fit.

  4. #4
    Registered User IvanLasston's Avatar
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    Its the great white hope that you can bypass verizon's draconian data pricing. If you are truly only a part time data user, and $45/month is too much of a burden consider trading in and getting a PPC-6600 or Treo 650 on Sprint. Over there it is on $15/month but you only get 128kbps. Of course if you are trying to dial in you are only gettin 14.4kbps so 128kbps should seem like alot.
    AT&T Jailbroken Iphone 3G 2.2

  5. #5
    Registered User rbelikov's Avatar
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    Originally posted by IvanLasston
    Its the great white hope that you can bypass verizon's draconian data pricing. If you are truly only a part time data user, and $45/month is too much of a burden consider trading in and getting a PPC-6600 or Treo 650 on Sprint. Over there it is on $15/month but you only get 128kbps. Of course if you are trying to dial in you are only gettin 14.4kbps so 128kbps should seem like alot.
    I'm paying $0/month right now and some fixed amount per kb. I do not want to bypass Verizon's nice and fast service (fastest in the world?), and I think $45 is a fair price. I just want to have the option of having a slower connection (14.4 is fine) and use air minutes.

    I got the xv6600 not for the internet (which I will use only lightly), but for the device. And, I've got lots of reasons to stay on Verizon for voice. Don't think I'll change. Can't have everything I guess.

  6. #6
    Registered User rbelikov's Avatar
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    I should add that I would have had the option of 14.4kbs (or whatever the limit of cell voice modems is) by connecting to my ISP, if the OS on the xv6600 had been left alone. The OS has the capability of doing dial-up connections, but I think Verizon blocked it. I'm not trying to take bandwidth from them, they are the ones taking away MY right to connect to MY ISP by using MY (pocket) PC from me! May be an interesting ethics question as to who's right.

  7. #7
    The Cartman of Convergence
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    So you are talking about connecting your XV6600 to a POTS line then right? Otherwise, wouldn't you need to use Verizons' wireless signal to connect to your ISP? Then you want to use the FREE voice minutes, which are called voice minutes for a reason, as a way to connect to your ISP. If you can do it, more power to you. Maybe someone will tell you how. But using your car analogy, I would think it would be more like someone buying a car that only ran on 93 octane or above, and you want to put regular 87 octane gas in the car, simply because you already have some 87 octane gas that you'd like to use, and would prefer not to pay the premium for the 93 octane. And you're upset with the car maker because they made to the car so that you need to use the correct fuel. I pay the $45.00 and think it's worth every penny. If it's not worth every penny, not enough people will pay for it and Verizon will have to lower the price or discontinue the service. If Verizon was my company, and you found a way to do it, I would find a way to charge you, or disable your access. Your attemping to use a product in a way it most likely was not made to be used, probably purposely so. So buy a car and get mad because you can't drive it in the water....

  8. #8
    Registered User rbelikov's Avatar
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    How would you feel if Microsoft suddenly decided to disable internet access from windows except through their own (hypothetical) fast but expensive MSN online service? I think Microsoft would get sued and lose.

  9. #9
    I'm a total loser and I've been banned!!!
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    Verizon sells this phone with 1xRTT service/EVDO and CDMA2000. They never ever ever suggest you can use Q2N or Minutes-of-use. They say you MUST sign up for the data plan.

    SO. Sign up for the data plan.
    Or don't sign up for the data plan.

    Ehud
    p.s. This has been discussed to death at least twice before that I know of. search
    Last edited by Ehud; 07-13-2005 at 01:25 AM.

  10. #10
    The Cartman of Convergence
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    Now you are really reaching. Verizon didn't suddenly disable anything, which by the way, you gave them the contractual right to do when you signed your contract. But you probably didn't read that, because the contract probably included things like “At times we may change your wireless phone's software or programming remotely and without notice. This could affect data you've stored on, or the way you've programmed, your wireless phone. Your wireless phone may also contain software that prevents it from being used with any other company's wireless service, even if it's no longer used to receive our service." And "Our Rights To Limit Or End Service Or This Agreement"
    ..." (i) modifying your wireless phone from its manufacturer's specifications;..."(k) using your service in a way that adversely affects our network or other customers"...
    Now your example would work if Microsoft sold you the OS that way, then you found out, then you whined a lot, in two separate threads, that should be in the same thread...

    So even if the phone could do it, then they did disable it, you contractually signed away your right to have a problem with that.

    Once again, I mention this not to be a jerk, but because you mentioned the unprofessional-sleazy stuff. They informed you in the contract that they could, and would, and you agreed.
    Last edited by onstjohn; 07-13-2005 at 04:01 AM.

  11. #11
    I'm a total loser and I've been banned!!!
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    Onstjohn: right on!

    (I just toned down my original post, because I have been warned, but you're right on

    E

  12. #12
    Registered User rbelikov's Avatar
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    Whoa -- didn't mean to seem like I was talking smack, maybe my words were overly harsh, and inappropriate compared to what I was trying to relay. I like Verizon -- despite this one fault -- but everything else outweighs it! I just wanted to have someone say: no, you're wrong, you can do it, here's how.

    From all the posts I've seen, all DUNs and quick2net connections are an illusion -- the device seemed like it has dialed in, when in reality my kb usage was going up and not my minutes.

    I am unable to use the search button for some reason -- get an error. Could you point me to your post where you describe the quick2net connection? Thanks.

  13. #13
    Registered User rbelikov's Avatar
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    Originally posted by onstjohn

    So even if the phone could do it, then they did disable it, you contractually signed away your right to have a problem with that.

    I hereby take back all my "smack". I just wish I hadn't been told by sales and customer support that I can readily use any dial-in ISP and quick2net (at least their method doesn't work)

    Once again, except for this little glitch, I LOVE Verizon. I was just hoping there would be sympathizers out there who may incite a movement to get Verizon to enable this feature...
    Last edited by rbelikov; 07-13-2005 at 01:39 AM.

  14. #14
    I'm a total loser and I've been banned!!!
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    I sympathize that you found people that told you stuff which isn't true. I sympathize that these people work for Vzw or appear to represent it.

    On the other hand, having fought vzw before on other issues, I know how much effort can be brought to bear ... and the cost.

    I'm saving my efforts for when there's a WME2005 on BA, to get them to release it for the Harrier.

    Ehud

  15. #15
    The Cartman of Convergence
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    I sympathize with your "search" pain, I haven't been able to use search on this site for a week...

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by rbelikov
    Whoa -- didn't mean to seem like I was talking smack, maybe my words were overly harsh, and inappropriate compared to what I was trying to relay. I like Verizon -- despite this one fault -- but everything else outweighs it! I just wanted to have someone say: no, you're wrong, you can do it, here's how.

    From all the posts I've seen, all DUNs and quick2net connections are an illusion -- the device seemed like it has dialed in, when in reality my kb usage was going up and not my minutes.

    I am unable to use the search button for some reason -- get an error. Could you point me to your post where you describe the quick2net connection? Thanks.
    I understand what you are trying to do.. Use your phone as a modem to connect to another modem.. I have an XV6600 on the way and would be trying the same thing at some point.. I can use my 6315 just like this now with T-Mobile.. However, to do this you are using their CSD side of their service.. Which seems to use voice minutes if you don't have a data plan, and data if you do have a data plan.. Anyhow.. I can see how not being able to use it as a real modem will be a problem for me since we use dial-up VPN at work... Thanks for the info...

  17. #17
    Mobile Pimp Big Calhoun's Avatar
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    I'll have to give this a try because I've yet to succesfully straight dial an ISP through an all digital phone and get a connection. I used to use EarthLink as my backup ISP when I travel (Cable at the residence) and since I started using all-digital phones, never could connect. So I dropped them and figured the $45.99 was worth it...which it is!
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  18. #18
    Mobile Pimp Big Calhoun's Avatar
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    OK, let's mix it up a bit...

    So another set of wrinkles in the mix....

    I decided to do a quikie test of QNC and analog ISP functionality with the XV6600. It's by no means purely scientific, so

    1. First I fired up a DUN session and used the settings for QNC. With 2 bars of the signal meter, I hopped over to DSLReports and did a speed test with the SpeakEasy servers, came back as 158 down / 27 up. Ummm...something not right.

    2. So I disconnect and try to straight dial Optimum Traveler (via DUN), which is the backup dial-up service for Optimum Online. Get connected and go back to DSR and use SpeakEasy again....171 down / 27 up...SURELY, not right.

    3. So I disconnect BT and go to the IT room and hijack a POTS line and again connect to Optimum Traveler. Again to DSR...same SE server....23 down / 22 up.....that looks right!

    So I dunno what to make up of it, I can use the QNC settings but get BroadBandAccess speeds. Same results when trying to call Optimum Traveler directly using the same method. But use OT over the phone line, and I get the expected results.

    I dunno...Like I said, the $45.99 is worth it. Now I have to wait and see how this shook out on the bill.
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  19. #19
    Registered User rbelikov's Avatar
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    Thanks for veryfying my type of an experiment, BC. 1 and 2 are consistent with my conclusion that xv6600 creates the illusion of dial-up, when in fact it always ignores the network settings and uses BBA or NA under the hood (the fact that a bogus connection works nails it I think.)

    I'm not sure what you're doing for 3. Are you still using the xc6600 or a regular PC? If the former, how are you connecting it to POTS?

    Now here's an ethics question for y'all:

    Now, I'm not talking any smack anymore, just keeping things purely philosophical -- suppose that in the near future Verizon releases a phone that is basically a fully featured PC, just pocket-sized like the OQO -- you can install Linux on it, or Windows, connect peripherals, etc. (I think that is inevitable eventually.) Suppose Verizon hacks the pre-installed OS so that you can only use BBA/NA. Would it be ethical for them to prevent you from reinstalling your choice of OS (suppose you like Linux) with your choice of options (namely DUN enabled)? Would it even be legal to have that kind of restriction in the contract?

    Yes, I know when it comes to that, it'll probably a whole other ballgame, but I would like to think of the xv6600 as a fully-featured PC already with all the features and options I've come to enjoy from a regular PC, plus a cell phone. Blocking DUN is a step away from that direction. What does everybody else think?

  20. #20
    Mobile Pimp Big Calhoun's Avatar
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    The 3rd check kind of gave me a baseline for what a straight dialed ISP should be in normal circumstances. That was done on my laptop through a POTS line. Since it speeds were significantly lower than when I tried to access a typical ISP through the XV6600, that kind of points to your theory...that no matter what you set, it's still going to access BBA or NA. Very wierd...I'd like to know the logistics behind it.
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