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  1. #1
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    XV6800 versus the i760

    Yes I know, it is speculation at this time, but anyone care to start comparing?

    The XV6800 looks like it has more rom. We assume EVDO rev. A. And more camera resolution. And may beat the i760 to market.

    Anything I'm missing?

  2. #2
    Registered User mrailing's Avatar
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    Actually the best way to do this, is read through the rumor thread for the 6800, it's either in it's thread now, or still in the 6700 forum.

    From what I have read, it will have the Rev A Chip, but under WM5 it won't be enabled, and until they release WM6, you won't benefit from it. And even then that is speculation at this point.

    But from what I can, they should be to market within a month of each other, or two at the most. The 6800 will be running WM5 AKU3.3-3.5 and will have around 128 MB of usable memory (not a lot more than the i760, and I never fill up mine on my i730).

    The camera resolution is interesting, as the 6800 is reported to be 2MP compared to the 1.3MP. Not a lot of difference there, but how much do you actually use the camera on the device? I haven't had one on any of my phones, except for the RAZR I use occasionally, and with it, I will still just pull out a point and shoot, or my SLR. If I am going to take a photo, I want something with quality. The slight edge this has here for me, doesn't mean much.

    Here is my biggest thought on the subject. The i760 comes out with WM6 and pretty much the only thing the 6800 has on it to begin with is a bit more memory and a 2MP camera. I would rather have WM6 on the device. Then in the next few months to a year, I am sure the 6800 will get some version of WM6 on it. If after this time of having my i760, the 6800 turns out to be a better device, I will switch after a year.

    There are three main reasons I want the i760 over the 6800.

    1. WM6 - many benefits to it, and who knows how long it will be until the 6800 gets it. I want HTML mail, and the speed benefits.

    2. Build quality. My i730 has been through a ton of crap, and I haven't had many replaced because of build quality. The quality of the i730 to me is much better than any HTC device.

    3. Exterior number pad - many people have been complaining about this, but I use the numbers all the time. Many times I can't use voice dial to call, and I just want to type it. I have an excellent memory for numbers and type them in all the time. I find I can do that without having to look at the screen to select a contact, and I do this on the small keypad on the i730. I also hit a LOT of calling trees and need to type in numbers quite often. I have never gotten used to the touch screen number pad, and prefer hard keys for numbers. Since everyone is switching to horizontal keypads (even smartphone devices), it's great still having the number pad on the outside of the phone.

    So for me, I think the i760 is the best device "so far". If the 6800 turns out better in 6-12 months, and gets WM6, then I will look at it again, but for the three points I made above, the i760 wins, no matter how much memory the 6800 has built in, or the MP count on the camera.

    The Rev A wireless is a two fold issue. It needs to be enabled on the phone, and enabled on the tower. Verizon is planning the rollout over the next 3-4 years since they just signed the multi-billion dollar deal. I am sure lots of markets will get EVDO Rev A eventually, but by the time they roll out Rev A in the areas I travel, I will most likely have a new device, or be eyeing a new device. It was just September 2006 when I got EVDO Rev 0 in my hometown, and not too long before that Louisville got it (maybe the first part of 2006). So Rev A, although will be a nice feature, still isn't needed for me. Also, Verizon needs to enable the features to use Rev A. So far it seems that all they have done is enable the upload speed to be a bit faster, haven't touched data/voice at the same time, or up'd the download speed. I don't upload from my device, so this is useless until they improve the rest of the features.

    So, in my opinion, the i760 will be the best device to have due primarily to the OS, but I feel that the 6800 has potential, but it's not enough of an upgrade for me to warrant a purchase. The only reason I would consider it, is the LARGE number of users across the world using HTC devices, and the potential for updates and hacks happening at break-neck speeds. But I still like the looks, benefits, and style of the i760, and will stick with it to begin with, and look at the 6800 or other devices down the road.

    I never thought I would have had the i730 for as long as I have (I was typically a 6 month user of mobile devices). So if I get the i760 for at least 12 months, then I will be happy, and anything longer just means that there still isn't anything better...

    Most of all I want a stable and usable device, and hacks/updates are just a bonus, and I have been extremely happy with Samsung devices, and have had MANY people complain about the HTC build quality (around 20 of my clients have the 6700, and I agree with them, since I support them).

  3. #3
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    I've been looking at the 6800 rumor thread, but like the i760 rumor thread it is pretty 'verbose' to try to pick out the good bits. Like the WM5/6 part, I missed that.

    I was hoping here for a bit more 'signal' on the device specs, and less 'noise'.

    I too feel the Samsung quality may be a bit better, and simply, I like the looks of the i760 over the 6800.

    I do occasionally run out of memory. SKTools gets things cleared up for me. I just wish I didn't need to use it.

  4. #4
    Registered User yawn's Avatar
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    my thoughts, excerpts taken from 760 rumor thread

    Texas Instruments OMAP 850, 201MHz: 5
    (incl XV6800/PPC-6800)

    Am I reading this wrong or it saying that the 6800 will have a 201MHz processor?

    I think Verizon has done well for themselves in choosing the PDA phones they will be selling.
    There are three main factors to a PDA phone

    Hardware
    Form Factor/build
    Software (OS Config.)

    So, Verizon is split in these three categories with regards to the new phones they chose to sell, as I understand it. Which to me is a marketing move of genius...make people choose which they want more, though knowing that cant have it all and keep them slightly disatisfied so that they will be looking for the next fix to their problem/desires. The customer will think...surely the next release of phones will have it all. Ah, maybe VZW had nothing to do with this and this is how it all panned out, but I doubt it. I would think they only want people mostly happy, not completely happy.

    The 6800 apparently has a commanding hardware lineup...barring my possible misread of the 201MHz processor...especially with the onboard memory alotment (which was first thought to be 256 when I wrote this but now maybe 12...but it does not upgrade to WM6...though no doubt the 6800 forum will have a WM6 update rumor thread brewing after a few months. The form factor for current I730 users appears intollerable, as it does not much to change from the 6700. Which also probably means the quality of the build hasn't changed much either and is sufficiently cheaper in feel to the 730.

    The Sammy 760 does upgrade WM6, which hosts a birage of software configuration "upgrades" from what we have now.
    As for build, Sammy has not steared us wrong yet.
    As for form factor, I might have bought the 6700 a year ago if it had the number pad on the front. I might have really considered the 6800 now if it had the keypad on the front. I know many don't like the landscape keyboard, but my big meat hooks will love it.
    The 760 is a short term phone, as Bam and mrailing mentioned earlier. The hardware allotment will soon be sluggish and sub-par...and in fact some may argue that it already is before it is on the market...but, in fairness, it will take time for REV A to roll out and for developers to develop programs for phones carrying greater memory capacities.
    Is this summary acurate?

    My conclusion...the poor form factor/build excludes me from the 6800, even though it will emerge as a longer term pda phone, a more solid phone investment if you will.
    Will I go with the 760 or stay with the 730? I will have to play with it a bit, but I am not sure that the new features that mrailing discussed earlier will be enough for me to warrant a change at this time to a phone that will be "yesterdays phone" before it reaches its 1 year birthday. I know that some expect to have a new phone every year or so, but I am not sure I can fit into that camp. This jury will have to remain out for now.


    In my distain for the lack of hardware upgrade to the 760 (though it does have a menial OS upgrade and I think a possibly good form factor upgrade), I went to read through the 6700 camp's 6800 rumor thread. Many of their comments are much like ours. not much of an upgrade in many ways, though they are liking many of the new hardware upgrades!...not enough reason to switch...they dogg sprint as we do VZW. And then I read this....

    "Quote:
    Originally Posted by Leodoc
    Has anyone forgotten one of the WORST aspects of the 6700 that I have not seen addressed in this 6800???

    I don't know about you guys, but if I am at a mall, listening to the radio in my car, or just out in a windy day....I CAN'T use my phone cause the background noise cancellation is non-existant. All too often the people I talk to complain about not being able to hear me at all.

    Was this even an issue for HTC in making the 6800? Will this be fixed? Does anyone have info on this? Thanks.

    -Leo "


    "The 6800 is supposed to come with bluetooth 2.0, which should unlock the capabilities of the digital noise processing (dsp) bluetooth headsets out there that have been so incompatible with the (bluetooth 1.2) 6700, like the plantronics 645 and 655 and the Gennum Nxzen 5500 (which is 1.2 I know, but doesn't work with the 6700 for sh....) So hopefully that functionality will help address noise issues in using the 6700 as a phone. Unless you mean that you're holding the 6700 up to your head and talking into it, in which case give up all hope--the actual telephone handset functionality of these devices is an afterthought to be used in an emergency, they are only practical for daily telephone use through a bluetooth headset; however, with M$ voice command, bluetooth makes them superior phones--and presumably the 6800 will come with AKU3 or greater and M$ voice command 1.6 can be fully optimized for Caller ID announcement over bluetooth."


    CHECK PLEASE!!!! THAT RIGHT THEIR MAKES THE 760 THE ONLY CURRENT CHOICE FOR ANYONE WANTING A NEW PDAPHONE!!!!

    I am now awaiting its lack of hardware upgraded arrival!

    Oh and Kbam - FYI it is a 200MHZ processor, but they are saying it is dual core, but they think one core is dedicated to phone only.
    John 3:16 is more than a sign between the goal posts.

  5. #5
    Registered User Miata492's Avatar
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    for me, i would rather compare the i760 vs the htc s720. yes, i know, the i760 is wm6 ultimate vs the s720 wm6 standard (smartphone) but the form factors are comparable. now that devices are coming out with a full number pad on the front, i dont think you can go back to something like the 6800. i got the chance to set up a cingular 8525 (which i beleive is the brother/cousin to the 6800) and i feel it doesnt hold a candle to the quality of my "old" sammy i730. i have gotten to know wm5 smartphone very well with my moto q and i actually really like the smartphone software and its simplicity. it is actually kind of nice not ever needing a stylus but sometimes i do miss the "full functionality" of my i730 and i turn it back on for a week or so here and there. that is my $.02 on this - hopefully i have not taken this too o/t...

  6. #6
    Registered User yawn's Avatar
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    I have contemplated the smartphone route also, but I do not like the no touchscreen limitation as some programs still need it. I agree, the 6800 is not much of a phone...Sammy or bust I guess...I love the new layout of the phone!
    John 3:16 is more than a sign between the goal posts.

  7. #7
    Registered User yawn's Avatar
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    is the 6800 the same as the cingular 8125?
    John 3:16 is more than a sign between the goal posts.

  8. #8
    Registered User Miata492's Avatar
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    yawn, the 6800 is the same as the cingular 8525.

  9. #9
    Registered User yawn's Avatar
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    thanks thanks
    John 3:16 is more than a sign between the goal posts.

  10. #10
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    One of the biggest drawbacks to consider on the 6800 is that the FCC filing revealed that WiFi and Bluetooth share an antenna. The two cannot operate simultaneously, even with a hack. This is a deal breaker for me. Hopefully the i760 will allow simultaneous WiFi and Bluetooth. Anyone know the answer?
    XV6800, Aliph Jawbone

  11. #11
    Registered User mrailing's Avatar
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    No body know the answer yet about this in either the 6800 forum or here, and probably won't be known until the device is actually released and tested.

    You might check out the rumor/release thread for the 6800 in the 6800 forum:

    http://www.smartphoneforums.com/forums/ppc-6800-xv6800/

  12. #12
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    yawn,

    No matter how hopeful the HTC 6800 people are about the TI OMAP 850 CPU, it's not the best choice for a PPC. It's just, well, wimpy.

    Can't account for why HTC spec'd the OMAP part, vs Sammy or Intel/Marvell XScale, for this device.

    HTC 8525 (Hermes), GSM
    Samsung SC32442, 400MHz
    Level 1 cache: 16KB data / 16 KB instruction
    CPU Core: ARM920T
    Instruction Set: ARM v4

    HTC XV6800/PPC-6800 (Titan), CDMA
    Texas Instruments OMAP 850, 201MHz
    Level 1 cache: 8KB data / 16 KB instruction
    CPU Core: ARM926EJ-S
    Instruction Set: ARM v5

    Samsung SCH-i760 (Robin), CDMA
    Samsung SC32442, 400MHz
    Level 1 cache: 16KB data / 16 KB instruction
    CPU Core: ARM920T
    Instruction Set: ARM v4

    On another point, cam quality is more a function of lens and sensor specs than it is of pixel count. Still, even 2.0MPx is now pretty crude. Haven't been disappointed with the ix30's 'flawless', 0.0MPx results...

    As they say, "0MPx opens doors."

    One potential trouble spot for the i760 may be the stylus. Perhaps too tiny?

    --BAM
    Last edited by KBAM; 04-10-2007 at 04:21 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBAM
    Can't account for why HTC spec'd the OMAP part, vs Sammy or Intel/Marvell XScale, for this device.
    Cost I suspect.

    As you know, Marvell is dumping the PXA270. They want people to switch to the PXA3xx series, but it will cost more. When counting pennies, the Marvell line doesn't have anything to directly replace the PXA270 at the same cost.

    If you want to simply stick with the PXA270 performance and cost for another year or two, you need to look elsewhere.

  14. #14
    Registered User yawn's Avatar
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    exvellent comments you guys...Bam, the processor on board the 6800 sounds quite wimpy. And not having digits on the oputside kills the formn factor.
    helix and mrail, does the cingular 8525 share a wifi-BT antenna?
    As I was browsing the new phones coming out, the gsm phones destroy the cdma phones in features. the cdma phones will be obsolete when they hit the market, though the 760 is a step up from the 730. It is a small step though and probably not enough for me to make that move...I will wait until the cdma guys come out with another head above the rest winner like the 730 was. I think I will wait for photon...I just don't need to pay all that money for a short term minimal upgrade
    yawn
    John 3:16 is more than a sign between the goal posts.

  15. #15
    Registered User HobbesIsReal's Avatar
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    Is the i760 a VZ exclusive phone? Or will Sprint have a shot at it as well?
    Hobbes
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    www.wmexperts.com/ | www.wmexperts.com/reviews/ | discussion.wmexperts.com/

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Orwig
    Cost I suspect.

    As you know, Marvell is dumping the PXA270. They want people to switch to the PXA3xx series, but it will cost more. When counting pennies, the Marvell line doesn't have anything to directly replace the PXA270 at the same cost.

    If you want to simply stick with the PXA270 performance and cost for another year or two, you need to look elsewhere.

    You may be right, Wayne, but it makes no sense for HTC to roll out a 6700-series follow-on that could very well disappoint many users. We'll be closely watching this debut...

    And many power users would gladly pay up for the PXA3xx family's alleged better performance and lower power consumption.

    Meanwhile, PDAdb.net lists just two forthcoming devices based on the new Marvell "Monahans" CPUs, both from Asus and both based on the PXA300 (essentially, the PXA27x successor):

    Asus P735 (Euro GSM; WM6); PXA300 (520MHz)
    http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=693&view=1

    Asus MyPal A626 (PDA, Non-phone; WM5); PXA300 (312MHz)
    http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=742&view=1

    --BAM

    EE Times piece on Marvell PXA3xx, 12/04/06:
    http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.j...printable=true

  17. #17
    Registered User mrailing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Is the i760 a VZ exclusive phone? Or will Sprint have a shot at it as well?
    We don't know yet. So far pictures have only surfaced with Verizon branding, and that's the only thing we have seen. Now under the new law that happened not to long ago, carriers aren't suppose to restrict devices if they can be used on their network, so you might be able to get it to work on the Sprint network, even with Verizon branding...

  18. #18
    Registered User HobbesIsReal's Avatar
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    Wow....I totally missed this new law. Do you have a link or thread that talks more about it?
    Hobbes
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    www.wmexperts.com/ | www.wmexperts.com/reviews/ | discussion.wmexperts.com/

  19. #19
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    Think mrailing's referring to the Copyright Office ruling of 11/06. This matter is a bit awkward.

    Essentially, the decision was this:
    For the next three years (or longer if renewed), "unlocking" a handset cannot be deemed a violation of copyright protection issued to the developer, or owner, of a handset's firmware. Thus, one is now permitted to "hack," with impunity, a subsidy-lock.

    The bad news is that carriers are neither obliged to supply an unlock code nor to permit "foreign" devices on their networks. In the case of GSM carriers, there's been, for some time, a degree of permissiveness regarding the above. T-Mo and AT&T/Cing will supply unlock codes under certain conditions (e.g., cust in good standing for 90 days, traveling overseas, etc.), and neither carrier imposes a restriction on devices. All that's required to activate a "rogue" GSM unit on either network--assuming frequency compatibility--is a valid SIM.

    Regarding CDMA devices, the issue plays out a bit differently. CDMA units aren't subsidy-locked per se, so there's no "unlocking" sport involved; these devices are ESN-qualified and 'serve at the pleasure of the carrier'. What this means is that if a CDMA carrier will allow your non-branded unit on its network, you're good to go. Of late, VZW has returned to a fairly civilized policy and will allow many (but not necessarily all) non-VZW CDMA radios to activate on its system, especially if similar gear is sold by VZW.

    But Sprint takes an odd and baffling fork in the road. It continues to demand that all hardware on its network be Sprint-branded. This policy is unaccountable--particularly as Sprint offers a generally inferior fleet of devices and needs every new subscriber it can get. Who cares where the handset originated?! Just honor it and get out of the way! But then, Sprint has a 20+-year legacy of bungled business operations. Sad.

    To appreciate the irrelevancy of Sprint's culture, just look to this acronym: Southern Pacific Railroad Information NeTwork.

    So, to answer the question, no, Sprint will not activate a VZW SCH-i760. As to whether Sprint will offer an equivalent device (months) down the road, we don't know.

    --BAM

    Note: A carrier's willingness to activate a "foreign" device does not imply a warranty of suitability for use on its network, or confer assurance that all functions will operate. For example, the carrier's custom UI or feature set may not be available for installation (flashing) on a particular handset; in effect, the unit will be unsupported.

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2064707,00.asp

    http://www.computers.net/2006/12/unlock_your_cel.html
    Last edited by KBAM; 04-10-2007 at 09:48 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBAM
    yawn,

    No matter how hopeful the HTC 6800 people are about the TI OMAP 850 CPU, it's not the best choice for a PPC. It's just, well, wimpy.

    Can't account for why HTC spec'd the OMAP part, vs Sammy or Intel/Marvell XScale, for this device.

    HTC 8525 (Hermes), GSM
    Samsung SC32442, 400MHz
    Level 1 cache: 16KB data / 16 KB instruction
    CPU Core: ARM920T
    Instruction Set: ARM v4

    HTC XV6800/PPC-6800 (Titan), CDMA
    Texas Instruments OMAP 850, 201MHz
    Level 1 cache: 8KB data / 16 KB instruction
    CPU Core: ARM926EJ-S
    Instruction Set: ARM v5

    Samsung SCH-i760 (Robin), CDMA
    Samsung SC32442, 400MHz
    Level 1 cache: 16KB data / 16 KB instruction
    CPU Core: ARM920T
    Instruction Set: ARM v4

    On another point, cam quality is more a function of lens and sensor specs than it is of pixel count. Still, even 2.0MPx is now pretty crude. Haven't been disappointed with the ix30's 'flawless', 0.0MPx results...

    As they say, "0MPx opens doors."

    One potential trouble spot for the i760 may be the stylus. Perhaps too tiny?

    --BAM
    That 201 mhz 6800 processor spec is wrong. There were photographs of a live 6800 (on engadget i believe) showing a clock speed of 384mhz, so it will max out at least to that. I believe something in the FCC rulings confirmed a Samsung stacked processor also.
    XV6800, Aliph Jawbone

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