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  1. #1
    Moderator iProb8's Avatar
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    VZW Business Practices

    After reading all the posts in the i760 Release Rumor thread and seeing how many of the posts within the last 24 hours really were a debate on VZW's business practices rather than rumors relating to the i760, I thought it would be more appropriate for the debate to move to a thread of its own. Thus, I'm creating this thread so people can whine, complain, defend, etc., VZW's practices with respect to the release of new devices. Feel free to discuss your thoughts on VZW's marketing strategy, VZW's not having released a new PDA phone in almost 2 years, etc.

    (Michael/Equus, if I'm out of line in creating this thread, feel free to delete it.)
    -Jay
    The Fine Print:Nothing in this post (or any of my other posts) is intended to constitute legal advice or the establishment of an attorney-client relationship. For purposes of this forum, I'm just another nerd like you. :-)

  2. #2
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    this entire thread is off-topic. why are we discussing VZW business practices in the i760 forum? the i760 is not a VZW phone. so it's completely off-topic to discuss VZW business practices in a forum for a phone that VZW has never even said exists and may never release.

    please create a new VZW forum and move this thread there.

  3. #3
    Enterprise Data Architect Mark_A_K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIAR View Post
    this entire thread is off-topic. why are we discussing VZW business practices in the i760 forum? the i760 is not a VZW phone. so it's completely off-topic to discuss VZW business practices in a forum for a phone that VZW has never even said exists and may never release.

    please create a new VZW forum and move this thread there.
    Maybe use this thread. It's already on topic and it is in the PDA Lounge.

    http://www.smartphoneforums.com/foru...zw-iphone.html

  4. #4
    Registered User Dorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iProb8 View Post
    After reading all the posts in the i760 Release Rumor thread and seeing how many of the posts within the last 24 hours really were a debate on VZW's business practices rather than rumors relating to the i760, I thought it would be more appropriate for the debate to move to a thread of its own. Thus, I'm creating this thread so people can whine, complain, defend, etc., VZW's practices with respect to the release of new devices. Feel free to discuss your thoughts on VZW's marketing strategy, VZW's not having released a new PDA phone in almost 2 years, etc.

    (Michael/Equus, if I'm out of line in creating this thread, feel free to delete it.)
    To say they have not released a PDA phone in 2 years is not right. Sure the Treo 700w was an inferior PDA due to lack of RAM, but the 700wx (which came out at the start of the year) is a very capable device for probably 90% of what business users need... email, contacts, calendar. It's not a perfect device... (square screen.. uggg.) It easily falls in the 80/20 rule.

    As an individual user, heck yeah, I want VZW to release a new sweet PDA every year so I can upgrade my device, but I don't think VZW cares about the individual user. They probably care about the large corp accounts, and if they are anything like us, we find a device that works for what we need and that is what the user gets. They don't need the latest and greatest to check their email and get their appointments. I don't want to support a dozen different WM or BB devices and their moble networks and all their little quirks. They can pick between one BB, one PPC and one Network. (We do have a secondary choice for people who do not have good VZW service, but those are few.)

    Once the i760 and 6800 come out, we'll look at those and decide which one works the best and one of those will become our standard and from that point on. (I'm already biased towards the i760, hehe.) Whatever device is our standard, we will upgrade users to it when their wx contracts start to run out next year.

    So for large accounts, I'm guessing when the i760 or vx6800 comes out makes no difference. (Unless a company needs a WM6 device because they want to take advantage of Exchange 2007). Now what % of their money comes from several large accounts versus numerous smaller accounts that can jump ship easily? Who knows.

  5. #5
    Registered User yawn's Avatar
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    I am not sure how appropraite this is in this forum either, though there have been some like it in the 730 forum. Having said that, I respectfully caustiously want to say, ah Dorf, great post my friend. Puts a lot into perspective!
    John 3:16 is more than a sign between the goal posts.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorf View Post
    They probably care about the large corp accounts, and if they are anything like us, we find a device that works for what we need and that is what the user gets. They don't need the latest and greatest to check their email and get their appointments. I don't want to support a dozen different WM or BB devices and their moble networks and all their little quirks. They can pick between one BB, one PPC and one Network. (We do have a secondary choice for people who do not have good VZW service, but those are few.)
    We currently support BB, Good, and MS Async push on all three major networks on about 15 to 20 different devices in an enterprise that has around 4000 total advanced devices. It gets really interesting when some exec asks you how he can get push mail on his new iPhone though. LOL.

    But yes, that is exactly the account they care about. As long as their devices get email / contacts / calendar via whatever of the three push mail methodologies that the company supports, then VZW isn't too worried about it.

    The company I work for is trying to get it down to 1 BB and 1 WM device per carrier, but based on the current device assortment covered, that is a LONG way off.

    In a perfect world, even with carrier specific models, VZW would give us one high end (6800 / 760 type), one mid range (700wx / Q), and one lower end (5800) device every 6 months. that way there would always be the edge tech, and a stable proven model of advanced device available.
    Last edited by depressedVZWuse; 08-16-2007 at 08:37 PM.

  7. #7
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    I think it's a perfectly appropriate thread.

  8. #8
    Registered User mrailing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIAR View Post
    this entire thread is off-topic. why are we discussing VZW business practices in the i760 forum? the i760 is not a VZW phone. so it's completely off-topic to discuss VZW business practices in a forum for a phone that VZW has never even said exists and may never release.

    please create a new VZW forum and move this thread there.
    Quote Originally Posted by yawn View Post
    I am not sure how appropraite this is in this forum either, though there have been some like it in the 730 forum. Having said that, I respectfully caustiously want to say, ah Dorf, great post my friend. Puts a lot into perspective!
    Yes, this isn't the best place to start this thread, but this is one of the things that the i760 watchers are wanting to discuss, and when pages of off topic comments are done in a thread which is continually off topic, and you have a place to discuss it, which is in front of you, then it sometimes is a good thing to start.

    Also demanding that posts be moved or forums created isn't the way to present that information should be moved. If you want to report a post or thread to people that should do something about it, there is a report post/thread option in each thread.

    Speaking about off-topic discussions, this has been something that has been kicked around for years on this site. This is something the moderators and even a team of your peers (our User Council) has discussed. We feel that we should keep topics of forums and threads to the topics at hand, but there are occasions when users get comfortable in their forum and don't venture out to other forums to discuss the information they want to discuss. This happens with software, birthday wishes, and even carrier discussions like this one. Even when these topics are created in the appropriate forum, they are often brought back up and discussed again in the forum that wants to discuss it. When this happens we generally let the discuss happen and the let the topic slowly fall to the bottom of the forum, or move it after the discussion has taken place.

    This is what has been happening in the Rumor/Release thread, general banter about everything, and yet people don't want to go elsewhere to discuss it, because they feel this is "home". These off-topic for the forum discussions aren't that big of a deal when the community is continually discussing them, and especially since the device hasn't been released, and it's the lack of a device that is causing the discussion.

    Moving this to the Lounge where it should be, won't solve anything, as the reason of the discussion is the lack of the i760, or what that user feels is a suitable replacement for their current device. This is the place for this discussion at the present time, with the present circumstances.

    Now at the same time, discussing release information, or other topics in this thread, it would be asked to be moved, or the posts would be moved to those threads, since we do like to keep threads on the same topic. BUT if this forum wasn't WANTING to discuss this current topic, then yes, it should be moved, and the discussion done elsewhere, but since this topic is hot because of this forum, then it is "on topic". You have to look at the overall picture...

  9. #9
    Moderator iProb8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorf View Post
    To say they have not released a PDA phone in 2 years is not right.
    Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I thought VZW hadn't released a new PDA phone in 2 years. I thought someone else had made that statement in the Release/Rumor thread, and I was simply using it as an example of the type of discussion that could take place in this thread. I really haven't kept track of which devices VZW has released or when they released those devices.
    -Jay
    The Fine Print:Nothing in this post (or any of my other posts) is intended to constitute legal advice or the establishment of an attorney-client relationship. For purposes of this forum, I'm just another nerd like you. :-)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by iProb8 View Post
    Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I thought VZW hadn't released a new PDA phone in 2 years. I thought someone else had made that statement in the Release/Rumor thread, and I was simply using it as an example of the type of discussion that could take place in this thread. I really haven't kept track of which devices VZW has released or when they released those devices.
    There is still some legitimacy to that argument though. The devices that have been released recently (700w/wx/p) are in no way shape, or form devices that a power user would be satisified with.

    The samsung and HTC devices forthcoming seem to both fit that bill. Vzw drives this bus and if they wanted a power user advanced device every 6 months, or 12 months you can be assured that a manufacturer would be more than happy to build one for them to their specifications.

    They do service and network very well, I just wish they had a better handle on equipment lifecycle and customer feedback.

  11. #11
    Enterprise Data Architect Mark_A_K's Avatar
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by czarcastic
    Forgive me in advance as it is not my intention for you to take any of my observations personally, I am merely trying to stop this dancing around the actual VZW contract and NE2 language which speaks for itself. DIAR valiantly tried to remind us all of VZW's own language and contractual promises in post 4504 and we already have gone completely off the rails.

    Every day customers sign new two year contracts, they purchase phones which start their NE2 clock ticking and other customers have their NE2 come up for redemption. VZW knows there will be NE2 redemptions every day, it will be an ongoing program and it must comply with the terms set forth every day. So what exactly does VZW promise they will do for their NE2 customers, some of which will redeem their NE2 discount every day?

    "Our New Every Two program can provide you with the LATEST in digital phone technology every two years. And Verizon Wireless is the first company to offer it."

    "No matter what the future advancements in mobile communications might be, you'll always have the option to enjoy the latest features available."

    So VZW has promised us that we will always have the LATEST in mobile communications advancements to choose from when our NE2 comes up for use. and we will always be able "to enjoy the latest features available."

    LATEST has a real-word meaning and it is not to be taken lightly. It does not mean kind of neat, incremental improvement, kinda like the stuff other carriers have released months ago, nor does it mean devices with GIN and VCAST, nor does it mean "new tech" a term not in my NE2 agreement that you have inserted and then interpreted. VZW has promised me and every other NE2 customer that no matter when our NE2 becomes available for use, VZW will provide us with the LATEST in digital phone technology as it applies to our original purchase subject to NE2, which does indeed include smartphones and in fact every category of phones for which NE2 is offered. It really is just that simple.

    Simply saying that the rumored new smartphones are new(er) as compared to older phones released is irrelevant. VZW did not promise me in writing that my NE2 would get me something "newer" than my old device, it promised a device with the "LATEST features available in mobile communications, NO MATTER WHAT THOSE FUTURE ADVANCEMENTS MIGHT BE." No room for dancing around and making excuses. VZW does owe me what they contractually promised me as an inducement to purchase a device on a two-year contract. Any first year law student will confirm this for you.

    VZW may not owe me an i760 or any other particular device that they have not publicly announced, but the i760 does not meet the criteria of the NE2 LATEST technology, so no problem. All I care about is that my NE2 came up last May and VZW did not then and does not now have a smartphone that contains "the LATEST features in mobile communications, no matter what those advancements might be."

    No matter what mrailing or any one says about "VZW doesn't owe us anything", every VZW customer with a two-year contract and NE2 is owed by contract a selection of the LATEST devices. That is a contractual obligation, pure and simple. Personally I don't care who VZW gets the devices from or what devices they are, all I care about is that they are indeed the LATEST as promised, not devices released in some cases a year ago in Canada.

    If you thought the v710 class-action was fun, wait until the sharks looking at this as a class action go after VZW. The only ones who will benefit will be the lawyers.

    Back on topic...two VZW stores in Richmond and one in Williamsburg I visited today while out and about all denied having any demo phones and did not want to discuss the i760 even though I know several of the people in the stores including a manager interested in the i760 and 6800 personally. Some told me the VZW focus is still on the 8830. Bummer.


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    My reponse:

    I agree and will further say that the only thing that VZW should really owe us is a great net work. If the manufactures had a chance they would sell us great devices. The coupling of the two under VZW business model is what is wrong. It's a conflict of interest.

    I have and many other s have said, we would not think of purchasing our PC's from our cable company. Why should this be any different? Yes there is the FCC part but the manufactures can still comply with the FCC and work with the cell service providers on the radio stuff specific for their network.

    They only NE2 that should be honored is that I will resign up for another 2 years with VZW because they have a great net work and instead of $100.00 to go toward a device have it go toward my next service bill.

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark_A_K; 08-17-2007 at 01:19 PM.

  12. #12
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    lol...i should have put the sarcastic tags on my initial post saying this thread should be moved to the VZW forum. i'm not one of the posters who care about off-topic posts. post whatever ya'll want.

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