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  1. #1
    finally a great device...Touch Pro2 mknollman's Avatar
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    Things gettin a little slow in the forum - anyone?

    So, either people are moving on to newer devices or we have solved ALL the problems and questions about the TP2 (doubtful).

    I realized the other day that I had been using this phone as my primary device for over a year now. The last device I could say that about was the old 'n' dirty Samsung i730. I still love this thing, although I do find myself lookin at younger ladies at times. How many of you out there are hunting for new devices? Or is there another forum at PPCgeeks or XDA that is getting all the traffic these days?

    For now (and probably until there are WP7 devices one VZW) I will be sticking with my trusty and tweaked TP2. I am unlocked and running a fairly stock but tweaked Energy rom that makes my phone haul the mail. Just wondering what everyone else is up to.
    been using winmo or one of its predecessors for near 10 years now - am I sick? cuz I love it.

  2. #2
    Cornfused MGuzzy's Avatar
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    I'm finding things slow on the whole site... I think a lot of traffic is hangin' out at PPCgeeks. or XDA... In addition to the fact that I'm seeing a huge shift to Droids, in the offerings I see from the retailers and what I see on the street. So I think as a result there is not a lot new to chat about! I really feel like the WM6x platform has been essentially abandoned by MS.. MS wants a slice of an App Store pie and so they are off creating one to ram down everyone's throat for WM7... we'll see what happens.
    I think I posted something about how quiet things are elsewhere... no one responded...
    Mark
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  3. #3
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    the shift has moved to the iphone and android. there were already one major android forum out there and there is xda and ppcgeeks. windows mobile and crackberry users are all set and there is not much else that needs to be discussed on those platforms.. plus you have the crackberry site which is huge..

    so its the nature of the beast. i see these messages posted every now and again on the site here.. and the lurkers come out... so people still frequent this site --mostly its people with older phones looking for some file or somesuch... we picked up the android ball late.. the iphone section here still has some users and its fairly active...

  4. #4
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    All is generally working well here.

    One of the free apps that I use is tied to online information. A few months back it started to lose features. They stated that they will not support WinMo going foward since it is a dead end.

    After over a decade of WinCE, PocketPC and WinMo, it looks like I will have to move on next year. My next device will likely be Android. I've been researching it to find if I can get apps to do everything that I can with my WinMo, and so far, no. But I can get close. Pretty sure I don't want to be locked down by the WP7 OS.

  5. #5
    Registered User virtualdavid's Avatar
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    I am still lurking here.

    The phone has reached its stable point, with not much new happening. So there is not much to talk about.

    People keep showing me their droids or iphones and saying "look at this cool thing I can do". Of course, I've been able to do it for years. So How did Windows lose its way? They've had the features for years, but somehow kept them at the bleeding edge and fussy rather than making them easy.

    Next phone will probably be a droid. Of if Verizon gets the iPhone, I'll consider that.

    David

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by virtualdavid View Post
    People keep showing me their droids or iphones and saying "look at this cool thing I can do". Of course, I've been able to do it for years. So How did Windows lose its way? They've had the features for years, but somehow kept them at the bleeding edge and fussy rather than making them easy.
    I have had people ramble on and on about what they can do with there new whatever. I tell them that I have been doing that for many years, and it is as if they don't hear, they just keep rambling.

    I have had people try to find a restaurant or hotel on their device. I get out my TP2, find the info and show them. Their eyes light up with a "WOW, what is that?". They I let them know if is WinMo, they just go "Yuck". It just performed a task that they could not, and did it quickly, but it is 'Yuck".

    For some reason, the "Windows" name on a mobile device has a very negative implication. I firmly believe that Windows Phone 7 will struggle to stay afloat just because of that negative name association. We shall see.

  7. #7
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    My wife and I are still using the TP2. There both modified slightly, running Medium Hill's Manilla ROM. They've been quite stable. I'm waiting for the WinMo7 phones to come out. Then I'll decide (we'll the quality of the phones and timing will anyway) if we jump to AT&T or stay with Verizon.

    John
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  8. #8
    finally a great device...Touch Pro2 mknollman's Avatar
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    Yeah, I find myself wondering whether or not I will jump to Android or WP7. My wife uses the Droid X and I owned one of the earlier Android tablets.

    I see Android as a natural progression from Winmo as it is infinitely hackable and easy to unlock. It has all the benefits of winmo and also some of the drawbacks.

    I currently am leaning toward WP7 myself. I love the XBOX integration and Netflix integration. Let's face it, all 3 main OS's (iOS, Android, and WP7 soon) will have all the same apps in the end. So the interface will be the differentiator along with hardware.

    I think the new WP7 interface is pretty great. Literally the only thing that WP7 lacks out of the gatre that I care about is tethering. My guess is that this is just a hack away. I just read an article a day or so ago that someone has already figured out sideloading apps so this is all just a hack away.
    been using winmo or one of its predecessors for near 10 years now - am I sick? cuz I love it.

  9. #9
    Cornfused MGuzzy's Avatar
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    Well there ya go... I think we're all still lurking, looking for something to talk about. For those of us that have been doing the smartphone thing since before it was called a smartphone are seeing devices that just reinvent the wheel as it where. Yeah WinMo has be doin' it for years and the Palm PdaPhones before that. Remember when Bluetooth was the real feature to get in a phone! or a Color Screen!.. The only real new hardware feature I've seen lately is a HDMI port.. but video out as been around for a while too. So the only newish thing we really have to chat about is whether the WM7 reinvention of its wheel will catch on with anybody...
    Mark
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  10. #10
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    This whole site is kinda dying out for many of the reasons listed and also because the main page is not being refreshed with news and articles like sites such as engadget.com. There is no compelling reason to bring new people in really. I myself only visit once a month now. My TP2 is a great device and I have kept it pretty close to stock except for unlocking the GSM SIM. I really liked pdaphonehome.com but I think in a couple years it will be just a memory.
    "We don't need no stinkin' iphones!!!" I love my Touch Pro 2..... Bleeding edge previous devices include the Samsung i760, dirrrty i730, XV6600, Blackberry 7750, Audiovox Thera, and Ipaq 5550.

  11. #11
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    the forum is indeed ready for improvements. this takes time and money. the owner of the site knows this and is in the process of revamping the site.

  12. #12
    Editor and Site Administrator Convergent's Avatar
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    Hi folks... I am sorry things have been slow and we are beginning steps to try and turn that around. I posted a news item about this last week or maybe the week before. Thanks for hanging in there and at least lurking if not posting.

    The first step is a new server, which is built, and we are going to be moving to it within the next few days I'm told. This is a necessary first step to help in a number of ways. Next, I'm going to be upgrading to Vbulletin 4 which has an integrated content management system that should make it a lot easier to maintain the home page posting news and articles. I had been delaying it waiting for all the various scripts we were using to get more stable, but one of the big issues that our professionally designed skin will be useless. I've been debating whether to spend the bucks to have a new skin designed, or just go with something more vanilla to start ... maintaining or logo, colors, etc, but not embarking on a new custom skin just yet. I am now leaning toward starting with the latter and see how we do.

    That takes care of the technology... the rest of it is how best to set things up to revitalize the discussions. I've seen a few ideas floated around but am curious what you all think. One suggestion is that the world is moving more to apps, and that we need to focus more on app based forums than device based forums. I think I may also start up some other categories of gadgetry and geeky things that I have interest in as well... but we'll see.

    So hopefully between now and the end of the year I'll have time to get things going in a better direction. If anyone is interested in lending a hand, let me know.

    If you see any hiccups in the next few days, just be mindful that we are switching servers so there may be an outage or two and also a potential DNS lag.... but our admins are pretty sharp so hopefully the disruption will be pretty minimal.
    Mike - Been Converged?

  13. #13
    Registered User virtualdavid's Avatar
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    Hopefully this will take care of some of the bugs. I have frequently had my browser hang (IE due to some kind of infinite loop. I think it is caused by some of the ads.

    This annoyance has kept me off the site. If I don't get on the first try, I move on to something else. One less cycle of contribution.

    David

  14. #14
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    The other thing that's scattering people away from this board is moderators and/or administrators who delete helpful posts because they like to effing micro-manage things more than China. As an example, early this week I posted a reply to the flash card software(for school) thread that simply gave a link to SPB's Flash Card software which I just found and really like and it perfectly answered the earlier poster's question. I went back to see if anyone noticed and my post was missing, so I reposted it just a few minutes ago. WTF? Who the hell would delete something useful? If it's useful and relevant to a previous thread, then I should be allowed to post it 100 times all over this board without a single post getting deleted. I'll bet you good money that some of your posts have been deleted too, probably without you noticing it, if you didn't go back to look.

    Oh, and another thing. New phones aren't added to the forum. If you just purchased a Nokia N8, then you're screwed here.

  15. #15
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    ET,

    new phones ARE added to the forum. its up to the site owner to do this. send Convergent an email and if it is something he wants to add he will.

    in regards to a posting getting deleted it may have been mis read as spam. this site unfortunately gets lots of spam daily so its possible your post was removed by accident. no one is here to cause you any grief and none of the mods are here to delete useful posts. this site has been around a lot longer than you have been a member and i have been on this site from day one and sometimes accidents happen. let me apologize to you directly for your post getting deleted. we appreciate members contributing to this forum and any information relevant to the discussions you have to assist members/lurkers is welcomed.

    if you need to "vent" more about this further then send me a direct PM. do not air your issues within the forum.

    i appreciate your feedback.

  16. #16
    Editor and Site Administrator Convergent's Avatar
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    I will reinforce what Marc said on this one...

    I have been lax in adding phones at times, and thats really because I don't want a million forums on here with near zero activity. I usually wait for someone to ask for it before adding them. I will rethink that going forward, but the number of devices has really exploded, so one suggestion we've been looking at is to concentrate more on app forums for the different platforms... which would have avoided your need to post the info over and over.

    We do get a TON of SPAM daily, that you never see. And the process for vetting that SPAM leads to some false positives from time to time. For this I will apologize also. It is not our intention to delete false positive content. Once we've got vBulletin 4 going, then we'll revisit the SPAM prevention techniques we have... I think there are some better automated tools there.

    The browser bugs are not going to go away... its a constant chicken and egg thing and we are kind of stuck a bit in the current forum. We'll have to trade "pretty" for "more updatable". The reason I say this is that I just saw that the current IE beta has broken some things in vBulletin 4 which are being worked on. Microsoft is where 90% of this stuff pops up because they seem to dislike following standards. I'm on a Mac, use Safari daily, and rarely can reproduce most of the issues that are reported here over the years without going into IE. I'm not saying that as a cop out... just saying that its not the best browser to use in my opinion.

    Keep the feedback coming so we can take it into consideration as we make changes to the site.

    Current status is the migration to the new server is completed. I will be sunsetting the old server on Monday. Next step is to migrate my other forum to vB 4... hopefully within the week. It is a much smaller and simpler forum, so I want to move that one first. Once that is done, I will revisit my plans for PPH and assuming I didn't run into any land mines, will proceed with PPH. You may see some rearranging of things as I prepare for that. For example the wiki script we are using is out of business, so I will need to copy the yellow/red forum headers stuff back into sticky threads like it was before... and re-do the wiki content to be regular threads. That's unfortunate, but not much I can do about it. I will need to also do something with the articles as that script is out of business too. My goal is to get purely on vBulletin and then add back out other add-ons as needed. So you will see a dramatic change in the site as we go through these steps.
    Mike - Been Converged?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convergent View Post
    one suggestion we've been looking at is to concentrate more on app forums for the different platforms... which would have avoided your need to post the info over and over.
    Well, you might want to have major headings for apps, then have major apps under those headings, then have a catch-all misc. heading for all the other minor apps. Major headings might include communication, business, multimedia, games, system, development, tethering (which might go under system, maybe), etc. Major apps might include stuff like Pandora. Catch-all apps might include something like ContactFix (which puts the first name first in your phonebook on the Omnia or WM device). OTOH, it's been very nice having a forum devoted to the i900/i910 because then whenever someone posts there I know that it's related to my phone. In other words, if I'm running WM and a certain application only has problems when running Android, then I don't need to know about the Android software. Likewise, when people have problems with an app, then the fix for their particular phone or OS is nice to have handy in a forum dedicated to that phone. Maybe the solution is to have a heading that's even above the major headings I mentioned before, which would be a heading for the OS you're using, then within each OS, there would be a copy of all the major headings, major apps, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Convergent View Post
    We do get a TON of SPAM daily, that you never see. And the process for vetting that SPAM leads to some false positives from time to time.
    Why not just have something short you have type in when you make a post if it's that big of a problem? I guess it's hard to filter out all spam, but still, this might help, although it'd be a PITA. Oh, another thing that would be a good way to help differentiate spam from good stuff is that spammers are usually one-time posters. So if the system can be set to let people that have posted 10+ times (or some number) to continue posting without danger of deletion, then I think that would help a lot too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convergent View Post
    Microsoft is where 90% of this stuff pops up.
    Ummm, because MS makes 90% of the world's software (or so it seems).

    Quote Originally Posted by Convergent View Post
    Current status is the migration to the new server is completed. I will be sunsetting the old server on Monday. So you will see a dramatic change in the site as we go through these steps.
    Oh, this always makes me nervous whe folks do this. Please make TONS OF BACKUPS before starting this. Also, please keep all the archive info available. Half the reason people aren't writing new information about the i910 is that the info is already here (since it's an older phone), so please don't let that resource disappear. Worst case scenario, if they can't be integrated into the new system, then just have something at the top to click on, then keep all the old stuff in an archive folder area that's separate from the new stuff. FWIW, I see nothing wrong with the current system, and in fact, I think that people will recognize that they're at the right place with the old/current system, whereas a new bulletin board system may make people wonder if they're at the right place. I suppose keeping some of the icons the same will help, like the logo at the top left hand corner.
    Last edited by ETphonehome; 11-21-2010 at 05:33 PM.

  18. #18
    Editor and Site Administrator Convergent's Avatar
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    I'm not sure we are going to take applications forums to the degree you suggested, but we'll be looking into it. We will try to do something that makes sense with the goals of the site and where the traffic seems to be going.

    There are a number or tools for battling SPAM that we have used over the years, but the problem is never going to go away. Some of the bots have gotten quite sophisticated and can actual post what seems like relevant content to get their url in via signature. Just like any other security battle... there is a balance between having too much and impeding the legitimate participants, vs. being to lax and having a sea of problems. I don't think we are going to go to a point where we require someone to type in something on every post they make... I've used sites like that and hate it... but I do appreciate the suggestion. vBulletin 4 has the latest and greatest SPAM tools.

    Microsoft's browser share is about 45-50% now and dropping. They may have been 90% at one point, but not today. By any measure of compatibility with standards, IE is horrible. My employer who has xxx,xxx employees worldwide just switched from IE to Firefox as our only supported browser for internal applications. So our stuff won't even be tested on IE any longer. I'm sure a lot of other organizations are following suit. I will always try to solve problems that are reported on any browser here at PPH, and certainly IE is a big part of our users... but I am just telling you that most problems that have been reported over the years here are with IE. There's not really anything I can do about that.

    We are not planning on deleting any content. My point above was that the non-forum portions of the site will be dramatically different simply because I will be redoing that from scratch.... the structure and formatting, not the content. No content is going anywhere.

    I don't really have any choice about this. Several of the commercial scripts that we use are no longer supported because the developers went defunct. And there is a ton of custom scripting I've done that is completely incompatible with the new version of vBulletin, and is useless anyway without the other scripts. I can not let the scripts continue to get further and further out of date. In the event that we had a problem, I'd be able to get no support. That is as bad as the backup problem you mentioned.

    My goal is to get to a place where I'm running everything on vBulletin 4... with no custom stuff. Then I'll be able to stay current on the scripts, and vBulletin isn't going anywhere. We are not going to a new bulletin board system as you mentioned... but rather a new version of the one we've been running since 2003.

    As for the backups, it makes me nervous when we do this stuff too. It will be a significant amount of work to navigate through the script upgrades and not hit any land mines. I'm still working out the plan, but anticipate that I will probably deconstruct the current site before upgrading. By that, I mean that I'll be ripping some of the "pretty" stuff out and stripping it down to the bare forum first. That will minimize the possibility of some rouge script breaking the upgrades. We've got about 10 years of stuff here that has a lot of possible break points. I am working through a similar upgrade on my photography forum first, because the database is significantly smaller and its easy to work with. But this site is way more customized.

    So just have some patience as I work through this process. It will take time and during the process we will probably look a bit like we are under construction. But my goal is to minimize forum outages by doing it in incremental steps.
    Mike - Been Converged?

  19. #19
    Cornfused MGuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convergent View Post
    ...Microsoft's browser share is about 45-50% now and dropping. They may have been 90% at one point, but not today. By any measure of compatibility with standards, IE is horrible. My employer who has xxx,xxx employees worldwide just switched from IE to Firefox as our only supported browser for internal applications. So our stuff won't even be tested on IE any longer. I'm sure a lot of other organizations are following suit. I will always try to solve problems that are reported on any browser here at PPH, and certainly IE is a big part of our users... but I am just telling you that most problems that have been reported over the years here are with IE. There's not really anything I can do about that.
    ...
    Boy you got that right.. in my IT biz I've taken to telling my clients to not even try and stay compliant with MS due to the compatibility issues. They were the big fish for so long they could make their own rules, now there are standards and everybody else is playing by the rules. With the MS brwoser share decreasing I think MS is just getting the point. Judging by ie9's progress towards being compliant with standards I figure it wills be one more version for them to get in line with everyone else.

    I trust you implicitly on the migration.. been here through a few of them since SPS dayz. I like the idea of categorizing things by platform or phone type, then have sub forums for the specific devices. You know how confusing it is to search for tricks that are common to all WM6 devices but its buried in a specific devices forum. And forums for App categories.. just my two cents.

    Mike, once again thanks for doing this.. I /we appreciate all you do to keep the lights on here.
    Mark
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  20. #20
    Techguru alanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Convergent View Post
    One suggestion is that the world is moving more to apps, and that we need to focus more on app based forums than device based forums. I think I may also start up some other categories of gadgetry and geeky things that I have interest in as well... but we'll see.
    I like the idea of an app based Forum. There are plenty of device and device hacking forums out there, and although Apps are discussed there, they tend to fall into the device specific threads, so if you don't have that device, you miss a lot, or a lot of stuff gets repeated over and over. If you keep the devices very high level (WinMo 6.5 and below, Windows Phone, iOS, and Android -- Maybe phone and tablet sections for the last two) and then organize by type of app (games, utilities, travel, etc....) I think we could get some interesting cross device discussion going.

    Alan

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