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  1. #1
    Slave to all that beeps Halitosis's Avatar
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    More DATA info on Verizon

    Here is the latest news I have from our always consistent, incredibly informed Verizon support:

    The Treo 650 is locked when it come to "network access". (Indeed, when you try to edit the network settings in the phone, it comes back and says that "it has been locked by your provider".

    The Treo will automatically use 1x network when available, tapping into your data plan... but will use QNC automatically when 1x is not available.. tapping into your minutes.

    At this point, we Verizon T650 users (those of us that are left) need to seek out a hack which will allow us to go in and edit those network settings... my guess is that if anyplace exists to force the phone to use QNC... it's in there. Just gotta go get it.



    Halitosis

  2. #2
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    I've had a 650 since Monday. Access to Network is different than the 600, but once you get to the network page, you just click MENU, and select "NEW", and you can set up a new network connection.

    As I stated in another post - this said, I have NOT been able to actually USE the netork connection that I created. The phone dials my ISP, and tries to log on, then it shuts off. The LOG FILE says:

    "PPP timeout Could not open the network library, Perhaps this device does not support network communications."

    So....while you CAN set up a new network connection, so far YOU CAN'T USE IT. I've posted here and on Shadowmite's site and hope there is a work around in the works. This is big for me, and all former 7135 users, and former 600 users.

    I hope there is an answer soon.

  3. #3
    Slave to all that beeps Halitosis's Avatar
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    More news on the data front.

    I called the original rep I bought the Treo 650 from, and made my case. I got my account changed back to MOU from a data plan.

    Luckily, she had JUST gotten back from a training seminar on the new 650, and knew the stuff I was talking about.

    1) The Verizon Wireless synch is the service that is "active and on" in the background. If you don't configure it, it doens't do anything. If you are worred about it, do just what I did and have it ask you each time for a connection type.

    2) The reason they are so adament about data plans with the 600 and 650's is because the Treos don't automatically disconnect from the internet when you leave a browser session. When you have MOU, this runs the risk of running up your minutes. Makes sense... although they could certainly find a way to present this to the customer better. (My spidey-sense tells me that this is a function of Blazer, the browser Verizon decided to package on the phone.... and that using some other browser might give us an option to have it auto-disconnect regardless.. like our 7135 did.).

    3) MOU is being phased out across the board (this is news?) and there was no guarantee how long this would last in my account before some sort of an audit would trigger its removal. (I'll cross that bridge when it comes to me).

    4) She also hinted that when using MOU, something that was primarily/initially intended for camera phones, exceptionally high data usage on nights/weekends would certainly trigger an audit... so "play nice".

    I told her that I was willing to acccept the responsibility, and to please give me my MOU account back.

    (Right or wrong... it's another twist... so I thought I would pass the info along...)


    Halitosis

  4. #4
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    I just tried using *611 - failed. She gave me the direct number to the Data area - I'll try them later tonght. I've not lost hope for a Shadowmite solution, and check his page often.

  5. #5
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    Halitosis - I have called several data techs (number: 888-924-7934), and it's been no cigar with all of them. However the last gentleman I talked to said that he'd be willing to add MOU to my account, but he hadn't the foggiest how to go about it, since it wasn't on the system. He said that if I had another mobile number that had MOU still on there (I mentioned that I knew of others who had this option), he could look at the setup and hopefully do the same to mine... so - what are the chances you'd be willing to pm me your mobile number towards that end? =) I'd be greatly grateful. But - I realize it's a bit iffy as well...thought I'd might as well ask though.

    Thanks!
    maurice

  6. #6
    Fully Confused Copasetic's Avatar
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    Re: More DATA info on Verizon

    Originally posted by Halitosis
    this point, we Verizon T650 users (those of us that are left) need to seek out a hack which will allow us to go in and edit those network settings... my guess is that if anyplace exists to force the phone to use QNC... it's in there. Just gotta go get it.
    Halitosis
    You are in luck, this seems to be the topic of the day, and is in lotsa threads already posted

    http://www.smartphoneforums.com/foru...884#post344884

    The directions for 1X are HERE

    Word to the wise: People who have bugged VZW about this have been removed from MOU. If you make a lot of noise about it they will respond in kind.
    Nothing lasts forever, except true love. If it does not last, it wasn't true....

  7. #7
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    Can someone explain to an idiot like me why this is even a damn issue?!?!?

    I don't understand. Why wouldn't you get the unlimited data access package for $44? At that point, you can have unlimited use of the internet, e-mail and other data transfer without fear of any additional costs. I was assuming that if you have the unlimited data package that the T650 automatically uses the Xpress Network and only goes to Quick To Net connection when and if Express Network is unavailable.

    I would assume that people would rather use the 1x Express Network speeds right?

    Am I missing something here? By the way, what is MOU?

    Also, is there a way to check which type of data connection you have (i.e. express net or Quick to Net) and what the speeds are?
    Last edited by Beef Jerky; 05-26-2005 at 05:25 PM.

  8. #8
    Ain't She Wonderfull? blues's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Beef Jerky
    Can someone explain to an idiot like me why this is even a damn issue?!?!?

    I don't understand. Why wouldn't you get the unlimited data access package for $44?
    Why? Because all of us used to be able to connect the the internet for free, using our minutes of course, and now they want us to anty up $45/month more. I think paying $40 for a voice plan is enough, never mind 100+% more for just data.
    Browse over to my new forum. http://www.palmfanatic.com

    "The wireless telegraph is not difficult to understand. The ordinary telegraph is like a very long cat. You pull the tail in New York, and it meows in Los Angeles. The wireless is the same, only without the cat. " - Albert Einstein

    Kyocera 7135 - Treo 600 -> Palm IIIxe - Treo 650 - Tungsten T3

  9. #9
    Fully Confused Copasetic's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Halitosis
    . . . when using MOU, something that was primarily/initially intended for camera phones, exceptionally high data usage on nights/weekends would certainly trigger an audit... so "play nice".
    Wise words, Hal.

    Apparently from the posts about all the phone calls, VZW is going to be planning a lot of audits, lol. Common sense is an oxymoron, sigh.
    Nothing lasts forever, except true love. If it does not last, it wasn't true....

  10. #10
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    vzw is becoming an oxymoron unto itself!
    Inquiring Minds Want To Know!
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  11. #11
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    Originally posted by blues
    Why? Because all of us used to be able to connect the the internet for free, using our minutes of course, and now they want us to anty up $45/month more. I think paying $40 for a voice plan is enough, never mind 100+% more for just data.
    Well, I guess its a matter of preference. I pay $40 for 900 anytime minutes and unlimited nights and weekend and in network calling. Frankly, as a business owner, I can completely sympathize with VZW not wanting people to have unlimited data usage on nights and weekends based upon a voice plan. Not an intended result. So I would say be greatful for what you had in the past. Frankly, I dont think its unreasonable. I am happy to pay $44 for unlimited data coverage since I have my T650 set up to constantly check for new email. I am also regularly downloading megabytes of data as well as using the phone as a cellular modem whenever I am traveling. Infact, once I move over to a EDVO enabled device in a year it will be even more worth the it.

    Also, I was assuming that if you have the unlimited data package that the T650 automatically uses the Xpress Network and only goes to Quick To Net connection when and if Express Network is unavailable.


    Just my opinion.
    Last edited by Beef Jerky; 05-26-2005 at 09:13 PM.

  12. #12
    Slave to all that beeps Halitosis's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Beef Jerky
    Well, I guess its a matter of preference. I pay $40 for 900 anytime minutes and unlimited nights and weekend and in network calling. Frankly, as a business owner, I can completely sympathize with VZW not wanting people to have unlimited data usage on nights and weekends based upon a voice plan. Not an intended result. So I would say be greatful for what you had in the past. Frankly, I dont think its unreasonable. I am happy to pay $44 for unlimited data coverage since I have my T650 set up to constantly check for new email. I am also regularly downloading megabytes of data as well as using the phone as a cellular modem whenever I am traveling. Infact, once I move over to a EDVO enabled device in a year it will be even more worth the it.


    Just my opinion.
    Then feel free to donate as much money to Verizon as you wish. For the rest of us that browse the internet once a week to check an address, or download e-mail once a month when we are stuck in a hotel for the night, it's a different story. I am not one of those data users that spends my nights and weekends trying to hack into Fort Knock via my Treo, or download the contents of my hard drive to my SD card.

    The fact is, we 7135 (among others) users wanted to upgrade our PHONES, not change our PLANS.

    I also am a business owner. (Shameless plug: MealMonger)
    But frankly it doesn't matter. The way Verizon has handled this entire scenario is just plain wrong. Simply finding out by accident (on a FORUM, no less... no offense to pdaphonehome intended) that your rates have gone up "just because" is outrageous.

    If they have to change their pricing/policy on data usage, then a MUCH fairer game plan would have been to grandfather the current plans, closing the door on new customers signing up. This would have phased in the process over time through the process of CUSTOMER rotation, not PHONE rotation.

    Why on EARTH Verizon (who normally goes to great extremes on the customer service level... unlike Sprint and TOTALLY FOREIGN to Nextel) would choose to lock their loyal users out in the cold is beyond me.

    Think about the logic here: All business rely on trying to make accurate predictions for their cash flow. Small or large, it's all about trying to figure out your income stream. If I was grandfathered into a plan with a great rate, Verizon would get NATURALLY what they are constantly after with their "service contracts". I would certainly suffer through a lot of mistakes and mishaps on the part of my cell carrier, just because I wouldn't want to give up a great plan.

    Instead, what they have done is put all of their customers on the same level... punishing those of us who have been LOYAL followers in the process (me personally for over 5 years on a variety of phones) causing ALL of us to re-think and re-evaluate which telecomm vendor we want our dollars to go to... risking the very customers they want to keep...

    ... not a smart move.

    (Insert some comment about catching more flies with honey than vinegar... or something like that).

    Halitosis

  13. #13
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    I'm with you Halitosis!!

    I've tried the script idea suggested on this forum, to no avail. I'm still working on trying to get the network files from a Treo 600 onto my Treo 650. (qnc/dial-up worked on the Treo 600)

    If you want to give it a try too, let me know and I'll send the files over to you. I've still got access to the 600 (gave it to my business partner) so if we figure out how to fix this we can "share the hack".

    As it is, the file that I've been trying to get over REFUSES to be copied into RAM, even using the installer. It may not even be the correct file, but it has me stumped.

    Shadowmite has expressed some interest in the problem, but he has a great deal on his plate, so we never know when he'll give this one a try.

  14. #14
    Slave to all that beeps Halitosis's Avatar
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    Sure, I'll give it a go.

    You can zip up the contents of the files and send them to:

    jborden:AT:datawedge.com


    Halitosis

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    I can appreciate your frustration. Frankly, it seems to me to be a situation of unintended results and the expectations that have grown from that. When the data network systems were being developed, I don't think VZW had a clear understanding of the business model...especially the way voice minutes would create an odd incentive for people to not sigh up for data plans.

    To me, we were getting free and unintended use of the data service. I fully expected this change frankly as it makes sense. I mean, why in the world would any service provider upgrade and improve their existing data network if they couldn't realize a incremental source of revenue. Basically, we were free riding on the data network by using voice service packages...which was only in unintended result of a badly implemented business model for a fledgling service. I personally don't think that I have much right to complain since I was getting something for free, i.e. the data usage via a voice plan was not the agreement between VZW and myself, it was something that I was getting inadvertantly.

    I think the real crux of the issue is the promotional free nights and weekend plans that has become industry standard. This basically means unlimited data usage on nights and weekends. I agree that using voice minutes for data usage seems fair, but I am not sure about unlimited data usage on nights and weekend. For all we know, data usage may be more expensive and create greater strain on the network than voice transmissions.

    Ultimately, I don't mind paying for a service that I want or need as long as the price is fair and reasonable. That's just how business is done.

    Again my thoughts and opinions only.
    Last edited by Beef Jerky; 05-27-2005 at 11:43 AM.

  16. #16
    Slave to all that beeps Halitosis's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Beef Jerky

    To me, we were getting free and unintended use of the data service.
    Again my thoughts and opinions only.
    It's all opinion here.

    But in my view, we were not just getting this service for FREE. We paid for our phone time, and had an option to just dock our minutes for time on the data side. Makes sense to me. "Power users" sucking up a lot of data time wound up paying the price for it through less minutes on their voice plan for the month. (And if they went over, they got dinged for something like .35 a minute... either way, they paid the price for it). But ultimately, it left the budgeting process in the hands of the CUSTOMER...

    We didn't get "free data services"... we had the ability to more fully utilize the block of minutes that we pre-purchased (and subsequently lost the remainder of every month) with our MOU (Minutes of Use) plans.

    Granted.... anyone here who can at will slam dunk $400 for a new Treo 650 can certainly also afford an additional $45 a month for data services... myself included... PDAPhones are not for the poverty-stricken.

    If you are happy with it, then crack a beer and be at peace.... more power to you.

    But... and (insert my father's booming voice)... IT'S THE PRINCIPAL OF THE THING....


    Halitosis

  17. #17
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    Beef Jerky, I can agree with you on some points, but not all. First off, Verizon is not a small mom & pop business without financial experts. They offered us the MOU program and we signed up for it using their official process (no cheating or sneaking). I don't think people have issue paying for the data plans as much as we think the pricing structure is excessively high. This forum is not full of Spring users trying to find a work around because their data plan is much more reasonable.

    Basically Verizon told us if we want to continue using our phones they way we always have (the 10 Mb plan doesn't go far), then we must pay an extra $45 + taxes. I'm not a poor person, but this is $540 per year! Ouch... That's more than basic cable tv.

  18. #18
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    I see your point. I guess what seems a little unreasonable is the ability to use your voice plan promotion of free nights and weekends for potentially unlimited data usage during those VOICE off peak periods.

    Well, I am going to take Halitosis's advice. Its Friday and its been one HELL of a week. I'm going to have myself a pint of Fat Tire or maybe a pint of stout, or maybe a pint of each and get ready for the weekend...

    Cheers all...

  19. #19
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    Yes, and does your landline telephone company charge you more if you are using a Dial-up modem to access the Internet as opposed to calling your aunt Mable across the street?

    The answer is no - even if you have a DIGITAL telephone line with advanced features. A call is still a call - nothing more and nothing less. It matters not if I leave my stereo on at home with a Verizon phone in front of it on a Saturday night and take it with me on a picnic to listen to music - still eating up free minutes to listen to music - or if I use my home number to check my email using a dial-up data connection.

    We are paying to make a call. They should NOT be involved with what is said, played, or transmitted during the call.

  20. #20
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    By the way - my Verizon Rep told me today that since MONDAY is a holiday, Nights and Weekend rates will apply!!

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