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  1. #1
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    650 locks up with incoming calls

    I am on my 3rd 650 in less than 3 months, and neither Palm nor Verizon can decide why, randomly, my 650 locks up with an incoming call...specifically, all I see is that my phone is vibrating with a name and number on the screen - when I touch the screen to answer, there is no reply, no change in the screen, and only the vibrating stops. To correct this, I have to remove the back and give it a soft reset. I use Palm Desktop for my calendar and contacts and it gets hot sync-d with my T3. And for truth in begging for help, I 1st started out with a separate user name for my T3 and my 650, and when the 650 locked up several times, I was told to go to 1 user name, and it STILL locked up repeatedly. I have never done anything with Outlook, so that was not part of any data transfer equation. Not sure what else to write, but I simply can not understand WHY it is BECAUSE I am hot sync-ing BOTH my T3 and the 650 to my Palm Desktop, and that is the ONLY thing that Verizon can tell me is causing this - it simply makes no sense to me that Palm would write some type of code that would effectively disable the incoming calls b/c of some linkage between a T3 and a 650.....HELP!!!!

  2. #2
    Registered User Breadheater's Avatar
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    It's possible that you've inadvertently overwritten a database on your treo with one from the T3, and that's causing the crash. Are you running any 3rd party software at all (Butler, Ringo Pro, anything that might stay in memory when a call comes in?) Does it always crash? Are you usually running some particular app when the calls come in and the treo crashes?

    I realize that you've probably been through this with the CS reps, but I think you should use a separate user name with your Treo. You should do a hard reset and sync nothing to it. Make certain (possibly several days usage) that the Treo is behaving itself. Then start adding over other data. Whenever possible, transfer the data in a Treo friendly way (which is to say, don't just sync a database, let the Treo create it). When you sync your contacts, try beaming them over from your T3.

    I hope someone else has some better and/or more specific advice for you. Good luck.
    Breadheater


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    VZW Treo 650 since May 30, 2005

  3. #3
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    hi Breadheater
    the only 3rd party software on my T3 AND 650 is Audible, RealPlayer (called RealOne on the T3) and the Palm Keyboard, and RP came with my 650 (RealOne came with the T3), I think.

    does it always crash? no, and it is not predictable, when or why..

    it happens when I am NOT running anything, just with the Phone on - nothing more than waiting for calls...

    OK, so this is what you want me to do:
    1. hard reset the 650, but DO NOT use the Palm Desktop for contacts or ANYTHING?

    2.leave the 650 in phone only mode for several days - no internet, no calendar no nothing...(but is HAS gone 10 days without locking up and then.... boom!)

    3.how do I "add over other data"...I am a short blonde, so 'doing it in a Treo friendly way' is confusing - is that what you mean by "beam it" (Treo friendly)

    please do not think you can insult me, so do not hesitate to be as 'detailed' as you may think I need to hear/read to be sure I "get it"...

    thx, and please don't abandon me so fast, no one has had the extent of suggestions you have given me...

    do you have any opinions about the potential Audible or RP interference?
    what about the difference between RO and RP? a name only difference?

    VZW Treo 650 since May 28, 2005

  4. #4
    Registered User Breadheater's Avatar
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    I'm really not certain what's wrong with your Treo, but here are the steps (explicitly detailed, per your request) that I would take in an attempt to minimize the problem.

    1. Hard reset the Treo. This should restore the Treo to it's factory default settings, and it shouldn't crash when the phone rings.

    2. Create a new user ID in Palm Desktop (that's blank, no contacts, calendar data, programs, etc.) and sync the Treo.

    3. Enter new contacts, calendar information, etc. by hand (in Palm Desktop, or on the Treo). Go ahead and sync that data. It should be okay to beam PIM (contacts, calendar, etc.) data from the T3 to the Treo as well.

    4. Do not add any third party software (non-factory installed software) for at least several days of successful use (if you made it ten days at one point, ask yourself (very specifically) if you did anything different, encountered any special/new/different problems on the day it crashed... sadly, this can be difficult/impossible, but worth a shot). You might leave it like this as long as possible to rule out it being something wrong with the core Treo apps (it really shouldn't be). Anyway, you ought to be able to run any of the programs that come installed on the Treo without fear of bad behavior.

    (A caveat: RealPlayer is capable of running in the background (I think, haven't fussed with it much), and therefore, it could be responsible for the crashes. But I really don't know. There is quite probably a difference between RealOne and RealPlayer as they are probably tailored to run on the different hardware.)

    5. If you are satisfied that your Treo is behaving itself, and there are 3rd party apps that you want to use, only add one at a time, and then use the Treo for a while before adding another app. When/if you start getting crashes, this should help narrow down which app(s) are causing the problem.

    I hope this is of some help. And if anyone else has good/better advice, please jump right in and add it.
    Breadheater


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    VZW Treo 650 since May 30, 2005

  5. #5
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    Re: 650 locks up with incoming calls

    Originally posted by Ceila
    I am on my 3rd 650 in less than 3 months, and neither Palm nor Verizon can decide why, randomly, my 650 locks up with an incoming call...specifically, all I see is that my phone is vibrating with a name and number on the screen - when I touch the screen to answer, there is no reply, no change in the screen, and only the vibrating stops. To correct this, I have to remove the back and give it a soft reset. I use Palm Desktop for my calendar and contacts and it gets hot sync-d with my T3. And for truth in begging for help, I 1st started out with a separate user name for my T3 and my 650, and when the 650 locked up several times, I was told to go to 1 user name, and it STILL locked up repeatedly. I have never done anything with Outlook, so that was not part of any data transfer equation. Not sure what else to write, but I simply can not understand WHY it is BECAUSE I am hot sync-ing BOTH my T3 and the 650 to my Palm Desktop, and that is the ONLY thing that Verizon can tell me is causing this - it simply makes no sense to me that Palm would write some type of code that would effectively disable the incoming calls b/c of some linkage between a T3 and a 650.....HELP!!!!
    First of all, you definitely need to be using 2 separate usernames, 1 for the 650 and 1 for the T3. When you hotsync, you aren't just syncing contact info and whatever 3rd party apps you have installed, but you are also syncing settings/files SPECIFIC FOR EACH PALM DEVICE that get synced without your knowledge. Hence, when you sync the Treo, files/settings specific to the T3 get moved onto the Treo and this can cause BIG problems. To determine if you have a faulty Treo, simply do a hard reset on it, sync it to a new username, and see if you still have the same problem. If you don't, then the problem is either T3 files/settings that are crashing the Treo or some 3rd party app that's causing the problem. Give it a try and let us know what happens.

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    Oh thank God, I am not alone, and this then mean that is it NOT my T3 causing the problem?!!!
    So Gonzo, that means that you have Verizon too?
    What is a bluetooth DUN?
    I had NONE of your 3rd party applications, never even used the camera!

    I am SOOO frustrated b/c yesterday I was told by Palm CS in the Phillipines that I am likely to get duplicates when I bluetooth my contacts and calendar between my T3 & Treo, which means that I have to THEN go into the Palm Desktop, hotsync them both and go thru the exercise of duplicate delete, which is another nice waste of time.....

    having these 2 units has NOT made my life better, if anyone at Palm is reading this....in fact, the CS guy actually told me that I was foolish to use my T3 and my Treo, and I should drop my T3....I told him, I would rather give up my Treo b/c I use my T3 for its larger screen and with one of those foldable keyboards, I have my desktop to go..

    hey, you 3, Verizon has offered to switch me to the new Samsung...opinions? would you take it?

    BTW, update: I followed Breadheater's steps and am waiting for a failure (I guess I am a glass half empty type of person with the Treo!)

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by Ceila
    Oh thank God, I am not alone, and this then mean that is it NOT my T3 causing the problem?!!!
    So Gonzo, that means that you have Verizon too?
    What is a bluetooth DUN?
    I had NONE of your 3rd party applications, never even used the camera!

    I am SOOO frustrated b/c yesterday I was told by Palm CS in the Phillipines that I am likely to get duplicates when I bluetooth my contacts and calendar between my T3 & Treo, which means that I have to THEN go into the Palm Desktop, hotsync them both and go thru the exercise of duplicate delete, which is another nice waste of time.....

    having these 2 units has NOT made my life better, if anyone at Palm is reading this....in fact, the CS guy actually told me that I was foolish to use my T3 and my Treo, and I should drop my T3....I told him, I would rather give up my Treo b/c I use my T3 for its larger screen and with one of those foldable keyboards, I have my desktop to go..

    hey, you 3, Verizon has offered to switch me to the new Samsung...opinions? would you take it?

    BTW, update: I followed Breadheater's steps and am waiting for a failure (I guess I am a glass half empty type of person with the Treo!)
    No, it does not mean your T3 is not the cause of the problem. Lockups can be caused by any number of things.

    Blueooth DUN = Dial-Up Networking

    Which Samsung device, I600, I700, or I730?

    FYI, you can use the foldable keyboard with the 650 as well (if its an Ir or Bluetooth keyboard).

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    thanks Marty, for coming back so quickly...yeah, I know the KB will 'go both ways' but the T3 screen is so much bigger, and you can not be working on the Treo and talking at the same time, which I can do with a Treo and T3 on a KB....

    what is the purpose of a BT DUN?

    i730

    I know you have said that a number of things can cause the freeze up, but since Gonzo and I have nothing but the 650 in common, my software feeble mind thought that it meant I might be able to return to one user name so I could synch them both easily, safely and rapidly..... boo-hoo

    however, in the end, I would like to understand, from Palm, HOW they can offer 2 related products that can disable each other, or at least one can disable the other.....it seems to me that, in a development program of 650's for various mobile carriers, Palm would HAVE to know if it is writing code that will disable the partner's service if paired with certain software..it is siply hard for me to understand since they have to be so much better able (with all their computer power and knowledge) to cross check whatever they do....oh well, I am just a short blonde - what do IKNOW!!?

  9. #9
    Registered User Breadheater's Avatar
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    BT DUN allows you to use your Treo as a modem for your computer.

    I thoroughly understand your frustration with the Treo's poor performance. But to be entirely fair, considering the complexity of the Palm operating system, mobile phone technology, and wide variety of available 3rd party software (not to mention random complications, such as syncing two palm devices on one user account), it strikes me as a miracle that any of these things even works at all.

    It occurs to me to ask this question: if you're going to use your T3 anyway, and you want to treat your Treo like a telephone, why use the Treo at all? Why not just get a regular cell and simplify your life?

    I hope you solve your problems...
    Breadheater


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    VZW Treo 650 since May 30, 2005

  10. #10
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    you know, Breadheater,.......
    that is the exact same question I asked the Palm guy - why should I use a 650?,...but then the answer is that quick emailing is more difficult if I only have the T3,....but I hear you and Marty that I may be expecting too much, but then why *#%@-up your products with 3rd party software, if it all can't live happily together even within its own family?

    I know, I am asking a market strategy question that is not fair to you both, but again, maybe someone out there is listening...in the race to create the more perfect product that can go with everything, they have made it certain that it CAN'T be perfect at its core.....

    And this is why I steered away from a regular phone: I have so much junk in my purse that if I can use my 650 most of the time and the T3&KB on trips, I win(I don't have to carry the T3 and KB daily)... UNTIL I want them all to have a love-in and communicate, and then I lose....

    let me ask you guys this..

    since Verizon is aware that I have this trouble, and have offered me an alternative, aside from the Samsung i730, (which they suggested), is there a particulary superb phone with BT and battery life and strong phonebook that I should think about...taking a page from your "regular cell phone" commentary above, Breadheater?
    Marty, what do you think?

    thanks in advance guys...

  11. #11
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    Originally posted by Ceila

    i730

    I know you have said that a number of things can cause the freeze up, but since Gonzo and I have nothing but the 650 in common, my software feeble mind thought that it meant I might be able to return to one user name so I could synch them both easily, safely and rapidly..... boo-hoo

    however, in the end, I would like to understand, from Palm, HOW they can offer 2 related products that can disable each other, or at least one can disable the other.....it seems to me that, in a development program of 650's for various mobile carriers, Palm would HAVE to know if it is writing code that will disable the partner's service if paired with certain software..it is siply hard for me to understand since they have to be so much better able (with all their computer power and knowledge) to cross check whatever they do....oh well, I am just a short blonde - what do IKNOW!!?
    I would not recommend you get the I730. The I730 is significantly more powerful than the 650 but it also infintely more complicated and if you are having trouble figuring out the 650, you will have a very hard time with the I730.

    You have to remeber that no Palm device was designed to share a username with another Palm device, doesn't matter if they are from the same company or not. Your syncing of two devices to one username is unfortunately, user error, something Palm cannot be held responsible for. You aren't syncing the devices as Palm intended them to be synced. It is not reasonable to expect Palm to make sure the 650 will still be stable if a file from another, different device somehow mistakenly makes it way onto the 650. That's like expecting Honda to make sure all parts from a Civic will work on an Accord if someone who owns both decides to mix and match parts on the two vehicles - Civic parts were not intended to work on an Accord so if they cause problems on an Accord, is that Honda's fault? T3 files have no business being on the 650 so it makes sense that by putting these files on the 650, it will make the 650 unstable. Again, you aren't syncing the devices as they were intended to be synced and Palm thus cannot be held responsible if the user experiences problems from improper usage. No way Palm should be able to anticipate the problem "well what if we have a user that decides to mistakenly sync two devices to one username, let's spend extra time and money to make sure they don't have any problems even though that's not how the device is suppose to sync" - that's just not reasonable.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Ceila
    you know, Breadheater,.......
    that is the exact same question I asked the Palm guy - why should I use a 650?,...but then the answer is that quick emailing is more difficult if I only have the T3,....but I hear you and Marty that I may be expecting too much, but then why *#%@-up your products with 3rd party software, if it all can't live happily together even within its own family?

    since Verizon is aware that I have this trouble, and have offered me an alternative, aside from the Samsung i730, (which they suggested), is there a particulary superb phone with BT and battery life and strong phonebook that I should think about...taking a page from your "regular cell phone" commentary above, Breadheater?
    Marty, what do you think?

    thanks in advance guys...
    Its up to the 3rd party companies to make sure their software is compatible with the 650, not the other way around. If Palm spent the time to make sure all or most 3rd party software was compatible, it would probably add a couple of years to the development cycle and we would never see these devices. Instead, it is far more reasonable to have the 3rd party software companies make sure their programs are compatible with the 650, especially since they are the ones that know their software the best so they are in the best position to ensure its compatibility with the 650.

    If you want to move to a regular cell phone, I would recommend the Motorola E815, it does have Bluetooth for use with wireless headsets but DUN has been disabled (can be re-enabled with a hack though).

  13. #13
    Registered User Breadheater's Avatar
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    I agree with Marty about the i730. It'd be at least as complicated as the Treo 650, but now you've got two completely different operating systems (and therefore, incompatible software, so no double-dipping) on your hands. I wish I could recommend a regular cell phone, but I'm not really up to date on what's good. But if you enable DUN on the regular cell, as Marty mentioned, you'd be able to shoot off an email almost as efficiently as with the Treo.

    Good luck.
    Breadheater


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    VZW Treo 650 since May 30, 2005

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    Unhappy Yikes

    That sucks, Honestly what I would do,

    Hard Reset the Treo 650,
    Rename the backup folder

    Hotsync

    Put the '3rd' party apps in 1 by 1, until you can find out exactly which one is doing it.

    It's also possible the old Treo 600 bug reappearing with the 'Phone' software itself crashing, and if that is the case you'll need to basically replace the device until you find one that works.

    However i'd try renaming the backup folder & hard reset first. Most problems with the Treo in general i've found are corrupt databases sitting in the Backup folder.
    This post is owned by me wholey, and has no party to any current or previous employer.

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    To Marty, breadheater and damm...

    Marty- I should point out that I started out with TWO user names, using them as was intended (wrote that originally) which is when the freeze-up troubles began, then I went to 1 user name with the 2nd phone - same trouble..
    what about this 600 bug damm talks about?

    breadheater - you mention no 'double dipping' as a safety check for me on the i730, but how would I transfer my calendar & contacts between the 2 - is it easy or too difficult to more than once in a while?

    damm - don't know what you mean by change the name on the backup folder.....you will have to be very specific, step-wise, that is what breadheater did for me and then I don't feel like I am walking so alone in this jungle


    thanks a LOT guys!!!

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by Ceila
    To Marty, breadheater and damm...

    damm - don't know what you mean by change the name on the backup folder.....you will have to be very specific, step-wise, that is what breadheater did for me and then I don't feel like I am walking so alone in this jungle


    thanks a LOT guys!!!
    Go into C:\Program Files\Palm

    Select your user folder, it maybe your lastname first initial, or another name, then inside there is a folder named backup, rename it to OldBackup

    You may find it in Palm, PalmOne, Handspring, or other various names of Palm, some people have additionally found it in C:\Palm

    However, there is a folder named 'Backup' rename it, hard reset, hotsync your data back (no this won't delete any contacts) it will only remove any 3rd party app's.

    If you need more help, call up Verizon WDTS (I presume it's Verizon) and call 866-788-9387 option 2,2,2

    ask them to help you rename the backup folder and hard reset.
    This post is owned by me wholey, and has no party to any current or previous employer.

  17. #17
    Registered User Breadheater's Avatar
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    In order to sync the contact and calendar data between a Palm device and a Windows Mobile device, you'd need to use Outlook on your desktop computer, and a conduit that syncs Outlook to your Palm. This would require, of course, buying some conduit software, and switching to Outlook (since I assume you're using Palm Desktop now). It'd probably work fine, but it would be one more layer of complexity (and I've heard people complain on this forum about Outlook data not syncing correctly with Palms, and therefore requiring a bunch of tweaking).

    At any rate, while using the i730 and T3 together would be a viable option, and allow you to keep your contacts and calendar in sync between the devices, the two devices would mostly not be willing to talk to eachother directly. And you wouldn't be able to use software from one device on the other. Moreover, you'd have to learn how to use an entirely new operating system.

    Personally, I think you'd be best served by a regular cell phone and your T3, or just the Treo alone. With a regular cell, you'd get better battery life, and if you set up bluetooth DUN, you'd be able to get the T3 online. And if you used the Treo alone, then you wouldn't have to tote your T3 everywhere and you wouldn't have to worry about syncing your calendar and contacts between the two devices.

    BTW, you should be able to work on the Treo and talk at the same time if you use the speakerphone or a headset. The Treo will continue to function as a phone even if you leave the phone app.

    One other thing occurred to me that I haven't asked yet: How much memory do you have free on the Treo? People have complained of unstable performance when they were too low on memory. What's 'too low?' I'm not certain, but I'd guess that you need to have at least 5 megs free. I have 8.5 megs free, and haven't had any real problems.

    Last edited by Breadheater; 08-25-2005 at 12:05 PM.
    Breadheater


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    VZW Treo 650 since May 30, 2005

  18. #18
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    Treo 650 locks on incoming calls

    Just another data point: my wife's 650 is locking up on incoming calls. She's on her second 650 with the same problem. We've installed NO additional software; this phone is operating right out of the box. We sync with Outlook, however, and a well-used Outlook PST, at that. I wildly speculate that something in the synced data is at the root of the problem. Obviously, operating for several days after a reset and before syncing would be revealing. The hard part: getting my wife to give up the synced data for several days....

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