+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    10-13-2003
    Location
    Renton, WA
    Posts
    73

    Detailed Treo 650 & Kyo 7135 Comparison

    I am considering upgrading from my Kyo 7135 to a Treo 650. Unfortunately, it is not an easy decision, and once I activate a Treo 650, I'm committed to it (because Verizon will not re-activate my 7135). So I have been making a list of the advantages of each, based mostly on searches of this site. I've developed a subjective (my opinion only) ranking system, and the Treo 650 is slightly ahead. I want to share my list for two reasons:
    1. It may help someone else who is trying to make the same decision.
    2. Others may provide helpful feedback. Did I miss something? Did I get something wrong?

    --------------------------------------------------
    Key:
    (4) = very important
    (3) = desirable
    (2) = nice to have
    (1) = slightly preferable

    Kyocera 7135 Advantages:
    * (4) Clamshell form factor (protects screen, has flip sounds, fits face as phone, can adjust viewing & sound angle)
    * (3) External LCD display (can see time & caller ID in holster)
    * (3) Stronger IR transmitter (can run OmniRemote)
    * (3) Analog phone reception
    * (2) SD card is covered
    * (2) Voice dial (without buying S/W)
    * (2) MP3 ringers (without buying S/W)
    * (1) Graffiti (without buying S/W)
    * (1) Highlight and dial (without buying S/W)
    * (1) Sufficient ear piece volume (without buying S/W)
    * (1) Difficult to accidentally hang up (touch screen is disabled in call)
    * (1) Phone suspends Palm application where it was (retains context)
    * (1) Keyboard backlight timing is settable (without buying S/W)
    * (1) Voice and doodle memos
    * (1) No 'key guard' buttons to push before each use
    * (1) More damage-resistant case
    * (1) Shorter in length
    * (1) Folding plugs on charger
    * (1) Shows number of voice mails
    -----
    31


    Treo 650 Advantages:
    * (4) High resolution screen
    * (4) Faster microprocessor
    * (3) 5-way navigation buttons (stylus-free operation)
    * (3) OS 5 (updated apps, font & color themes, memo size increased from 4k to 32k, 16 categories, more security, etc.)
    * (2) Longer battery life
    * (2) Camera
    * (2) Bluetooth
    * (2) Faster IR sync
    * (2) Keyboard
    * (2) More available accessories (GPS, Wi-Fi, etc.)
    * (2) Fully supported by Verizon
    * (1) Stores data in NVM
    * (1) Brighter screen
    * (1) Includes 'Documents to Go' S/W
    * (1) Can watch movies
    * (1) Less S/W bugs
    * (1) Thinner dimension
    * (1) Bigger stylus
    ------
    35


    Common Advantages:
    * Integrated PDA & Phone
    * Palm OS
    * Verizon CDMA
    * Color display
    * SD card
    * Speaker phone
    * Infrared
    * USB
    * Removable battery
    * MP3 Player
    * Palm shortcut strokes
    Last edited by Bob G.; 11-01-2005 at 12:40 PM.

  2. #2
    Fully Undaunted
    Join Date
    09-04-2004
    Posts
    85
    Hey Bob you forgot one.....the SD card on the 7135 is covered the way it should be, cant tell you how many times I have had to go looking for my card after it poped out of the 650 by accident. Finally got "CardKeeper" program to warn me when it pops out. I like the 650, but I loved the "35". Next version PLEASE!!!!
    Oh... what a tangled web we weave!!

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    04-15-2004
    Posts
    320
    I made the switch a few months ago. I definately like the form factor of the 7135 better, but the faster processor and greater internal ram are awesome compared to the 7135.

    Hires is definately nice to have.

    I miss voice dial, especially the fully handsfree implementation of it. Proper use of the favorites buttons makes that a moot point now, especially if you know QWERT layout.

    I transitioned from Graffiti really easy. I just couldn't get it working very efficiently, so that proably made it easy. Even with my big thumbs, the 650 keyboard is easy to use.

    Bluetooth is a nice to have. wireless headset is great. simple file transfer with the PC is very cool.

    exposed screen sucks. hard to find a good case that fits well and keeps you from accidently pressing buttons.

    analog on the 7135 was nice, but digital coverage is getting better daily.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-03-2004
    Posts
    20
    Bob,

    You did a very good job capturing the differences. I just went through this transition after using a 7135 since it first came out. I was forced into it when mine finally bit the dust...

    After a week:

    It is about a wash. I really miss the clamshell form factor....but the screen is very very nice. It is a reasonable trade.

    Adding the free Graffiti Anywhere program (which is customizeable as to which application it is active in) solved my occasional itch for using the stylus. It does use Graffiti 2 so it is as good (or errr as bad) as the last rev. of the 7135.

    Phone Technician (not free but reasonable) solved the problem of getting sunburn from the screen while talking and also provided MP3 ringer support. A two-fer! A very nice program for the money. Plays my old ringers just fine.

    Don't worry too much about losing analog. I did because I travel into some thin-coverage areas. The -35 used to go to analog at times and suck the battery dry, but at least you had signal. The Treo of course stays digital, but the digital coverage seems better than the -35. At least for me...I have read other have had different experiences. In my case, -35 digital+analog coverage = tero digital coverage. Of coure in areas that just plain do not have digital, you are out of luck.

    The only thing I have not solved is finding a way to install a simple POP3 e-mail program (like Eudora on the 7135). The Treo comes with Versamail which wants to install to your desktop, add a synch conduit, and synch your e-mail. If you want that, great. If not, it seems like the only option is to install the whole thing and just turn off the conduit. What ever happened to a "custom install" option?

    O yeah, the system sounds want to turn themselves back on after you access the realplayer mp3 player. So if you don't like the "keyboard-push-sound", you have to go back and turn it off every time. The recommended replacement is Ptunes. Realplayer is not as good as bebopper. It lumps all songs together even if you have them in separate directories and although you can create a separate playlist, it does not seem to keep them in order. For some, not a big deal, but a difference.

    Biggest difference, after a week not one forced reset or crash.
    However I did notice a slowdown after installing several applications, and a soft reboot solved that.

    Good luck on your choice. If you have any other direct 7135 vs. 650 questions I would be glad to help.
    BJBBJB

  5. #5
    When they pry it from my cold hand. tivolutionist's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-2005
    Posts
    67
    Originally posted by BJBBJB

    The only thing I have not solved is finding a way to install a simple POP3 e-mail program (like Eudora on the 7135). The Treo comes with Versamail which wants to install to your desktop, add a synch conduit, and synch your e-mail. If you want that, great. If not, it seems like the only option is to install the whole thing and just turn off the conduit. What ever happened to a "custom install" option?

    BJBBJB
    If you go into the 'Advanced' options for your email account in the desktop Versamail Setup app (it's a button on the second screen), it has an option to turn off synchronization. It appears that when you do this, it does continue to back up the information in Versamail on the Treo without trying to pull new email during the hotsync. This way can leave the conduit active.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-21-2003
    Posts
    122
    Former 7135 owner here. I find your comparison about right. But you missed one:

    The treo's ear-volume is way too low out of the box. I really couldn't hear much of anything without third party software called "VolumeCare."

    You should pretty much assume you'll need it too.

    -Warr

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    10-13-2003
    Location
    Renton, WA
    Posts
    73
    Thanks to all for the great feedback!

    I've edited my original post to include Wolfee's SD card comment and wernst's ear volume comment.

    Also, thanks to BJBBJB and wernst for the software recommendations.

  8. #8
    lou
    lou is offline
    OCpDa
    Join Date
    11-12-2002
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    43
    It seems like the Treo 650's phone & PDA functionality is not nearly as well integrated as it was with the Kyo.

    You can't dial from other apps like Docs to Go, by simply highlighting the number and hitting phone button. Instead you have to actually highlight, copy and then paste into dial screen.

    The Contacts app isn't as nice, you see fewer contacts because all numbers are displayed. that said, it is nice to be able to enter letters from first or last name and have it be smart enough to find.

    It's pretty useless to assign an app to the side button if pressing the button doesn't wake up the PDA. Am I missing something here?

    When you go to the Call Log you can't use the center button to scroll down to a call record you have to tap it to dial it. It would be nice to be able to use this instead of being limited to 10 recently dialed numbers.

    In Contacts, if I use the center button to select it automatically dials, if I tap on a number it brings up a window and I have to select Dial. Pretty lame.

    I really miss the caller ID window. It was great to be able to discreetly look down at your vibrating phone on your belt to decide whether or not to answer. I'm considering a bluetooth headset but I rarely answer a call without knowing who it's from so I have to open my case to check the screen, so the headset it's no great advantage to me unless I'm driving. Does anyone know of an app that will do an audio announcement?

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    04-15-2004
    Posts
    320
    Quote Originally Posted by lou
    It seems like the Treo 650's phone & PDA functionality is not nearly as well integrated as it was with the Kyo.

    You can't dial from other apps like Docs to Go, by simply highlighting the number and hitting phone button. Instead you have to actually highlight, copy and then paste into dial screen.

    The Contacts app isn't as nice, you see fewer contacts because all numbers are displayed. that said, it is nice to be able to enter letters from first or last name and have it be smart enough to find.

    It's pretty useless to assign an app to the side button if pressing the button doesn't wake up the PDA. Am I missing something here?

    When you go to the Call Log you can't use the center button to scroll down to a call record you have to tap it to dial it. It would be nice to be able to use this instead of being limited to 10 recently dialed numbers.

    In Contacts, if I use the center button to select it automatically dials, if I tap on a number it brings up a window and I have to select Dial. Pretty lame.

    I really miss the caller ID window. It was great to be able to discreetly look down at your vibrating phone on your belt to decide whether or not to answer. I'm considering a bluetooth headset but I rarely answer a call without knowing who it's from so I have to open my case to check the screen, so the headset it's no great advantage to me unless I'm driving. Does anyone know of an app that will do an audio announcement?

    sounds like most of your issues can be resoved by switching to TakePhone (see a forum here near bottom of the index page)

  10. #10
    When they pry it from my cold hand. tivolutionist's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-2005
    Posts
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by lou
    When you go to the Call Log you can't use the center button to scroll down to a call record you have to tap it to dial it. It would be nice to be able to use this instead of being limited to 10 recently dialed numbers.
    I beg to differ. I use the center button all the time in call log. It took me a bit to figure out that I had to go 'up' with it first though, to move the 'focus' from the bottom buttons to the log itself. What *I* would like would to be able to do is use the side rocker switch to scroll an entire page at a time. I know there are apps to do this, but I'm not sure if any of them are free.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    01-14-2004
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    83
    I made the switch about 6 monthes ago. I loved my Kyo so much that I gave it a nickname "Casey". For the first month or so I missed Graffitti and used Graffitti anywhere, but now have become used ti the treo keyboard. Takephone and takephone hack will allow you to dial, sms or surf by highlighting. Battery life on the treo is exceptional. Volumecare and PTunes are essential. There is a free voice recorder app called Soundrec.
    Over all I've come to love my Treo650. If they come out with a treo700P with its evdo faster surfing as long as it has the 320 X 320 hi res screen I might upgrade.

    Hope this helps

  12. #12
    lou
    lou is offline
    OCpDa
    Join Date
    11-12-2002
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    43
    Thanks for the tip on the call log, it works, though again, it involves an extra step that makes you wonder what they were thinking.

    I forgot to mention how much I miss the ability to press one button (using 1BVoice) to launch the recording of a voice memo. Thanks, I will give Takephone a try and will look into the others.

    One thing I can say so far is that having to buy all these apps to do what the Kyo did for free really sucks.

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    01-14-2004
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    83

    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by lou
    Thanks for the tip on the call log, it works, though again, it involves an extra step that makes you wonder what they were thinking.

    I forgot to mention how much I miss the ability to press one button (using 1BVoice) to launch the recording of a voice memo. Thanks, I will give Takephone a try and will look into the others.

    One thing I can say so far is that having to buy all these apps to do what the Kyo did for free really sucks.
    Well, I hate to say it, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. In the early days of computers, all you had to buy was a DOS disk (if I remember iit was about $5.00) and you could do everything -- today $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and $$$$$$$$$

  14. #14
    Registered User thaxman's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-16-2004
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    415
    I like the lists - its like Car & Driver. But I think I would include some "-1" scores to counter some attributes, like clamshell 4, unprotected screen/keys -1 because some of the attributes of one phone may be a 2 or 3 instead of 4, but on the other could be such a detraction as to require -1.
    I would also add another positive for the 7135: stealth. When someone sees a 650, they know its got a ton of (potentially) useful information on it. the 7135 looks like an 8 year old analog phone (Samsung's 505 is the same way, someone PLEASE renew the clamshell design!!!!)
    As much as I want a faster processor & DECENT resolution, I'll keep my 7135 until it croaks.

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    06-20-2002
    Posts
    180
    A couple of thoughts to add:

    Indirectly addressing the number, caliber, and quality of apps available:
    +4: Palm has and continues to actively support s/w developers with extensive documentation and tools.
    -1: Kyocera made it doubly difficult to develop for the 7135 by delayed publication of severely limited documentation AND failing to provide any kind of simulation environment supporting 7135 features.

    "Slippery little suckers":
    -1: Palm makes the 650 very hard to hold onto to, physically. It is far too easy to have it squirt right out of the user's grasp, with all smooth tapered surfaces. And as mentioned previously, the plastic case is far more likely to suffer serious damage from these inevitable falls.
    +3: The 7135 has a bend and corners, edges, and several rubber areas to aid in holding onto it. It even has a lanyard mounting point, which I have used to attach a black elastic band (think hair band) via a tiny split ring. The band allows me to put a finger or two through it when picking up the phone and has made the phone virtually undroppable, even when I had used it for reading and fell asleep!

    "PDA(+Phone) vs Phone+PDA":
    -1: 650
    +3: 7135
    After using the 650 heavily for a few trial periods (work), I tend to agree that Palm has NOT polished the user interface on this device nearly enough to warrant the level of self congratulations I hear about in the press on how user friendly the device is. Don't get me wrong - as a "PDA" it is very user friendly - I LOVED the one-handed operation! However as a "PHONE" it has a ways to go compared to the result of the obvious extra time and effort taken by Kyocera and their development team on user interface features (if only the same could be said about their time and effort on software quality assurance in general!). What is so baffling about this disparity in phone use smoothness is that both teams have done several generations of smartphones (Qualcomm/Kyocera's pdQ800, 6035 & 7135 to Handspring/Palm's 180 through 600 & 650).

    I do sincerely hope that once the next Palm model is launched, we will see some extra attention was paid to the phone portion. Afterall, many more people use phones than PDA's ... so if you want to help your product draw more interest from the mainstream non-business account holders, DON'T short-change the phone in the "essence of Palm" - full set of features with intuitive means of accessing and using them.

    Unfortunately, it apparently won't be available in a much preferred (IMO) clamshell format.

  16. #16
    MiNi-MaN-mAkEuP-mAsTeR ljj8503's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-15-2004
    Location
    cHiCaGo
    Posts
    33
    i made the OS5 move from my KYO when the treo650 first came out in Dec'04 and i can tell you that i personally dont miss the 7135 one bit.......well ok i miss a couple of things but the owning a treo will make you forget about al that.....maybe......!?
    !!!Uno...Dós....Tréo!!!

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    10-13-2003
    Location
    Renton, WA
    Posts
    73
    It's been 3 months for me since I gave up the Kyocera 7135 for the Treo 650. While I certainly like the bright, high-resolution screen and the fast microprocessor, I am starting to experience the dark side of the Treo.

    I've already had to replace it twice, once for the bad headset connector (known issue on Treo 600, but not fixed!), and another for a sticky key board and a red flashing screen. Meanwhile, after 2 years of hard use, my original 7135 is still ticking.

    Did I mention the lousy design and manufacturing quality? When you press the keys it creaks like a cheap child's toy. The keys flop around in the case because everything snaps together; the only screws are in the back cover. And everything is exposed - the screen, SD card, connectors, etc.

    Then there are the constant issues with duplicating records in Outlook and creating "conflicts." I can't tell you how many hours I've spent trying to figure out which records were original and which were bogus. Unfortunately, I've lost some important data along the way. If anyone knows of an Outlook conduit that actually works, please let me know.

    Plus the random reconfiguration of my sounds. I miss calls and text messages, only to discover that the sound or vibration setting flipped a bit.

    The other day, I was hot syncing and my wife called. The phone rang, but the hot sync screen could not be interrupted (as usual), so I missed the call.

    I have a huge list of added software, adding up to almost the cost of the Treo itself! And much of it should have been included with the Treo in the first place (especially Voice dial, Volume Care, and MRing ... plus the free applications FileZ, Treo Helper, Power Net, Card Keeper, and Graffiti Anywhere). All this functionality is included with the 7135.

    And the Bluetooth is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine. It is difficult to set up, it synchronizes very slowly (virtual serial port, not USB), and the Treo hardware doesn't support voice dialing or music playback through Bluetooth ... now that's a nice slap in the face after you lay out the cash for the software and the ear piece! And if you want to do dial-up-networking, you have to hack your ROM!

    So, after owning both for a while, the Treo is a disappointment when compared to the Kyocera 7135. I am hoping that some innovative company is hard at work right now finishing up the design of a clamshell PDA phone with the superior features, the excellent phone / PDA integration, and the rugged chassis of the 7135, plus the faster processor and superior display of the Treo 650.

    I'll be one of the first to jump, even if it means dumping Verizon for Sprint!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts